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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#591

Post by closewith »

petre wrote: post #584
brnt wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im in Europe, so that doesnt matter. And even if they had then here top, they'd be useless to me, because Teslas are too large for me.

Which part of Europe? See the map. If it's SE Europe, Cyprus or the Baltics, you are basically screwed. Western, Central and Northrn Europe (the populated areas) not so much. https://www.tesla.com/en_eu/findus Model 3 is a normal sized compact car, but if you live in Italy or on an island, it could be too big.

This a case where the markets are so different that the names diverge.

The Tesla Model 3 is a Medium car by NHTSA standards and a Compact by EPA standards.

However, in the EU Euro Car Segment standard, the Model 3 is a D-segment or "large car".

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#592

Post by redcobra762 »

I’ll never forget the evening I spent driving around Phoenix desperate to find a place to charge the rental Tesla I had because I couldn’t figure out the charging station near my hotel.

I eventually found the adapter in the trunk, and I am confident there were a dozen “right answers” I ought to have known about, but it was a rental and I didn’t at the time own an EV myself.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#593

Post by Aeolun »

nixass wrote: post #563
Zanni wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar process the first time I rented a Tesla from Hertz (about a year ago). Counter-person was surly, gave me the key for the wrong vehicle (!) and gave me incorrect instructions on how to use the key. Hertz did send out an email in advance on how to use a Model 3/Y, including key entry (incorrect, unfortunately), door operation and charging. Recently I rented one again, and the process was much improved,…

So people now need a special instructions on how to use a particular model of a car. F*cking amazing

For most cars I'd say it was ridiculous, but Teslas are a class apart.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#594

Post by chx »

dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

To be fair, the current generation of electronic vehicles are a terrible idea.

Sure, at first sight you are not burning fossil fuel in your car so you are slowing down climate change. Plenty of studies show the life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions are significantly lower for an EV than an ICE vehicle. https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-l... Although perhaps a mere half is not what people would think at first when they just compare tailpipe emissions... and it depends on how carbon intensive is the electricity you are using for charging. And there's more than just emissions to consider.

1. Lithium mining needs water. The typical amount given is 500 000 gallons per one ton of lithium. Think of fracking.

2. Mining waste for base metals such as copper or nickel is 20-200 tonnes but rare earth minerals like platinum make a million tonne of waste per tonne extracted.

3. The lifetime of the battery which is the problematic component is significantly lower than the lifetime of a typical ICE car.

And more.

The solution is, of course, to reverse the dependence on the automobile. https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-m... this might be old but it is still relevant.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#595

Post by alkonaut »

I know it's not the reason for dropping EVs but one thing a rental car has to do is work exactly like any other car. Meaning like any traditional car. That means it needs a key/kefob with a lock button on it. It needs a normal UX for the driver It needs a way of refueling/charging the user can be 100% confident they can pull of - in a new city/country and with a new car. Without having to google.

An EV you buy yourself seems to be a short week of frustration as you learn where the charging infra is, get 100 new apps for charging, learn the quirks of a car UX the manufacturer thought they might as well change since everything else changed and the car is now apparently a phone. But at least after that frustration it can be a good experience. But with an EV you rent for two days, you can't have a week of frustration. It just doesn't work.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#596

Post by tonyedgecombe »

wenyuanyu wrote: post #552
b112 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why h2 is the answer. h2 that is shown to work, regardless of all the hyperbole and reckless claims battery fans make.

Honestly, H2's got a long long way (if viable at all) to go as the future of clean cars. There is not much natural H2. In a way, H2 acts like a battery as well using electricity to produce from H2O, and discharge as electricity to H2O. Producing it cleanly, like with green power, isn't efficient yet – it's only around 70% efficient. Plus, getting H2 from the factory to the customer is way way pricier than just using…

> There is not much natural H2

There may well be, we don’t really know because we haven’t been looking for it at any scale.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#597

Post by petre »

donatj wrote: post #525
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swappable batteries are a huge fire hazard. They stopped doing that even for scooters. Too dangerous.

We’ve literally got people right now open air pouring liquid gasoline. It’s not uncommon to even get some on yourself. My point is it can’t be much more of a hazard.

Sounds like you haven't seen a lithium or a sodium fire yet. After you've seen one, you'll handle batteries like you do explosives..

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#598

Post by tonyedgecombe »

forgotusername6 wrote: post #562
tuatoru wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... trying to find chargers with the right plug, ones that aren't broken, ones that were available, downloading various apps, etc. Then when I did find a charger I sat in the parking lot waiting for it to juice up. These considerations are why I think we'll eventually move to battery swapping, when the market is mature enough to have standards for batteries. When there are as many battery swapping stations as there…

I wonder if it would be easier to switch to say a part swappable battery, rather than try and make the whole thing swappable. Something smaller, but with a reasonable range, say 50 miles, might allow for a smaller ejection port on the car and possibly even light enough to handle by a person.

Or hook up a battery in a trailer for the occasional long journey.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#599

Post by alibarber »

kirse wrote: post #471
dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. This was my recent experience. I was offered an EV car as a rental upgrade in a major city because the local rental place didn't have an EV charger. I figured what the hell because it was a relaxed holiday vacation. Turns out that was a hilariously bad idea. Ended up spending at least 5-6 hours of my week vacation trying to avoid t…

Yeah - I was getting excited about having booked an EV for my Christmas holiday visiting family in the UK (with Hertz). Fortunately researching charging knocked some sense into me and I switched back to a ICE vehicle.

- Even though I was staying in their house there was no way I could charge it without buying an expensive cable, or risking some cheap crap from Amazon (blow up the house or the rental car perhaps?)

- Every damn thing needs an app (and an account and registration - fun if you don't actually live in the country in question). Seriously just put up a charger and a contactless payment reader. Imagine if every petrol pump needed an app to start? May as well go back to having to put pound coins in a meter...

- Oh and it was expensive anyway at 85p/KWh at public recharging points. So 78kWh * 0.85 = 66GBP ($84) per charge, say 230 miles to be generous. I gave the petrol rental back with 600 miles extra on the clock and put a bit over 50 quid in petrol in it.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#600

Post by nsteel »

petre wrote: post #579
brnt wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd call the charging market far from nature. Installing random apps, practically per charging point? Or requiring a second wallet for all the 'network' cards? Wake me up when I need nothing more than the payment card I already carry.

It only works with Teslas, forget the other ones. That's part of why the others have failed to deliver a useful EV: only Tesla has a reliable charging network. The others are reliant on half assed solutions made by third parties.

Some supercharger stations can be used by non-teslas with a CCS port. And it seems there's a big move coming for more to adopt.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-nacs-charging-port...

Edit Although I should add, even if they work, they may not support the full power charging. My Kia works, but nowhere near 250kWh.

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