The pro-Israel information war • Hacker News Board

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#591

Post by YZF » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:50 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #569

meowface wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

Hagari was not speaking about massacring civilians. He was talking about damage to Hamas/military targets. He did say that Israel is biased towards more damage vs. accuracy.

This is very propaganda. I've been following the conflict pretty closely and I speak Hebrew. The parent is correct, there is and was no order to massacre civilians.

It's probably safe to say that protecting Palestinian civilians is not Israel's main priority, but there's a big difference between that and painting a picture of Israel trying to massacre as many civilians as possible.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#592

Post by IOT_Apprentice » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:50 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #548

A1kmm wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

I suspect you ignore the history of terrorism by Irgun and the bombing of the King David Hotel, which house the British military command. Menachem Begin was a key player in that attack & was extremely proud of it. Who are the modern day parties following in those footsteps? Why Likud, & Begin was a co-founder of that very party— now led by Netanyahu.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#593

Post by bluish29 » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:51 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #569

meowface wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

To add to the list.

- Amichai Eliyahu, Israel's heritage minister: "that "there are no non-combatants in Gaza," adding that providing humanitarian aid to the Strip would constitute 'a failure.'" [8]

In the same interview: "When asked by the interview whether a nuclear weapon could be used on Gaza, Eliyahu responded: 'That's one way.' " [9]

[8]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-05/ty-article/ne...

[9]https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-minister-suggested-nu...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#594

Post by m463 » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:51 PM UTC

A1kmm wrote: post #521

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

It seems to me a more fundamental assumption is: there are two groups.

I believe breaking things up into "us" vs "them" is the root of much evil in the world.

Would it be more meaningful to say "dads killing dads" or "this specific person killing that specific person" ?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#595

Post by xster » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:52 PM UTC

proc0 wrote: post #180

holmesworcester wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another possible explanation for this skew is that TikTok and IG are primarily video platforms. The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel, because the scale of what Israel is doing to Gaza is so much greater than what Gaza has done to Israel. Another way of saying it is, it makes sense that someone who spends hours on apps optimized for empathy-based addicti…

> The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel Maybe you haven't seen enough of what happened in 10/7 then. I would rather get hit by a bomb then tortured to death in the most horrific way possible.

Can you show us some first-hand sources of what exactly did happen in 10/7? If not suitable for TikTok (though gore and violence upon Palestinians are readily visible), there must be available somewhere on PeerTube or blockchain platforms.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#596

Post by IOT_Apprentice » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:55 PM UTC

instaeloq wrote: post #307

mastazi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…

I think your interpretation is wrong. OP stated: "If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views". They're explicitly stating that they believe pro-palestinian views are prioritized.

Prioritized in what exact way? You are fed what you are interested in and like, on TikTok. It is easy to read yourself of topics or content you are uninterested in or dislike.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#597

Post by r00fus » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:55 PM UTC

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261

master_crab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong. But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

> But chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country)

You mean what's in the Lukud 1977 charter which was reiterated by Netanyahu recently after 10/7?

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront...

To claim that Israels use of this phrase (which explicitly calls for the removal/elimination of Palestinians) is ok while the Palestinian one is not is hypocritical.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#598

Post by mupuff1234 » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

jjgreen wrote: post #17

master_crab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong. But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

Funny how so many otherwise clever people get confused about this.

Some people are confused sure, but honestly it is quite obvious that a lot of time when people say "Zionists" they actually just mean "Jews".

Looking at comments online, i'd argue that around 90%+ when someone uses the word "Zionism" they are just bigots.

If you genuinely want to criticize israel, just critique the country and its actions, the same you would do for any other country, no need to start talking about "Zionists" etc.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#599

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

YZF wrote: post #591

jakelazaroff wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

Hagari was not speaking about massacring civilians. He was talking about damage to Hamas/military targets. He did say that Israel is biased towards more damage vs. accuracy. This is very propaganda. I've been following the conflict pretty closely and I speak Hebrew. The parent is correct, there is and was no order to massacre civilians. It's probably safe to say that protecting Palestinian civilians is not Israel's m…

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#600

Post by jakelazaroff » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 11:58 PM UTC

YZF wrote: post #591

jakelazaroff wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

Hagari was not speaking about massacring civilians. He was talking about damage to Hamas/military targets. He did say that Israel is biased towards more damage vs. accuracy. This is very propaganda. I've been following the conflict pretty closely and I speak Hebrew. The parent is correct, there is and was no order to massacre civilians. It's probably safe to say that protecting Palestinian civilians is not Israel's m…

Is that meant to be exculpatory? If you say that you're attacking military targets that are (allegedly) embedded within civilian infrastructure and that you're focused on damage rather than accuracy, you are telling me that you intend to massacre civilians.