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macOS Sonoma is available today

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Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#591

Post by Phurist »

tacker2000 wrote: post #497
cglong wrote: post #188

So it goes... Warning: You are using macOS 11. We (and Apple) do not provide support for this old version. It is expected behaviour that some formulae will fail to build in this old version. It is expected behaviour that Homebrew will be buggy and slow. Do not create any issues about this on Homebrew's GitHub repositories. Do not create any issues even if you think this message is unrelated. Any opened issues will be…

Yea the homebrew dev team is pretty user hostile tbh. The more you read their github, the more you realize how insufferable and arrogant they are. It leaves a very bad impression. Also, if you are not going along in the upgrade rabbit race, homebrew gets really annoying and actually in your way at some point. I see myself moving to macports soon, if brew gets worse and the stability of my setup is compromised (lots o…

Just use Nix

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#592

Post by bshacklett »

watermelon0 wrote: post #366
bshacklett wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue with Nix is that you are forced to install packages in a global location. Why is it that every package manager assumes I’m an administrator on my machine? Even if I am, how does it make sense to take over a global directory as a single user?

Homebrew is the same, there is no good way to have Homebrew installation shared among multiple users on a single machine, much less to have separate packages for each of them.

> ...there is no good way...

Agreed, but it's at least possible. My usual install is just cloning Homebrew to ~/homebrew and setting up a symlink. It's far from ideal, due to the number of packages I need to build from source, but it works, and it's allowed me to function normally in tightly controlled environments.

As far as I can tell, the initial installation for Nix doesn't allow this, though iFreilicht pointed out some options that I haven't seen before, so I may be wrong.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#593

Post by bshacklett »

iFreilicht wrote: post #488
raunakchhatwal wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he may be referring to installing Nix itself, which does require root even if the intention isn't to install anything system-wide. I did once think about modifying the nix installer to let me set an arbitrary nix store because I wanted nix packages in a docker container I was debugging, but never really got around to it. Let me know if you know of somebody else who tried this.

So this is possible, but there are a lot of caveats. First, the installer itself explicitly says: ``` # Please don't change this. We don't support it, because the # default shell profile that comes with Nix doesn't support it. readonly NIX_ROOT="/nix" ``` I haven't seen any configurations where the entire /nix is relocated, but nix _does_ support relocating the store with the environment variable `NIX_STORE_DIR`.[1]…

Now that's interesting. I use Homebrew in a similar way. It does mean I have to compile a lot of things from scratch, but Homebrew has knowledge of which packages are relocatable and which aren't, so I get to use binary "bottles" for about 25% of the packages I install. I'll have to give this a try.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#594

Post by tacker2000 »

pkulak wrote: post #387
stalfosknight wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the kind of vibe they give off on their Github repo too. They're not the nicest people to interact with.

Well, they have to spend their time propping up an OS built by one of the richest companies in the world for free.

So what? Its their choice. You dont have to behave like that just because your program is so popular.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#595

Post by lloeki »

chatmasta wrote: post #250

I wish Apple would separate the updates of their bundleware from their OS. Some of the major updates have meaningful changes to the underlying OS (gatekeeper, SIP, etc.), but others - like this one - are primarily changes to frills like Messages, Notes, Safari and other Apple-native apps that I don't even use. I have no problem with Apple bundling these apps and making them work seamlessly together, and I don't even…

> I wish Apple would separate the updates of their bundleware from their OS.

In a way it's a bit of a philosophical standpoint: macOS is the whole indivisible thing developed, built, and released in lockstep, kinda like FreeBSB base is the whole indivisible thing developed, built, and released in lockstep (and the rest is ports). In a way, removing tcsh from a FreeBSD install because you only ever use bash from ports does not make sense and may break things; so you just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#596

Post by n8henrie »

bshacklett wrote: post #240
n8henrie wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://nixos.org/download.html#nix-install-macos The homebrew team seems incredibly burnt-out, to the point of hostility. I've really enjoyed the nixpkgs community so far and encourage others to check it out; it hasn't replaced homebrew entirely for me (yet), but it's getting closer every day.

My issue with Nix is that you are forced to install packages in a global location. Why is it that every package manager assumes I’m an administrator on my machine? Even if I am, how does it make sense to take over a global directory as a single user?

Only true for MacOS though, Linux supports a proper single-user no-root install.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#597

Post by AndroidKitKat »

halostatue wrote: post #358
beowulfey wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works well now though—do you prefer any of the other package managers still?

I use both MacPorts and Homebrew. By and large, I prefer MacPorts (because I can pin a package and it will stay pinned, whereas Homebrew will upgrade a package if it happens to be a dependency of something else) but there are numerous packages and casks only available in Homebrew. If I could switch entirely to MacPorts, I would.

I wonder why there aren't more "casks" for MacPorts. On my work MacBook, I've got Firefox, Google Chrome, Orbstack, and Visual Studio Code installed via brew casks, and none of them are present in the MacPorts catalog. Maybe I should step up and learn how to package things for MacPorts...

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#598

Post by alluro2 »

absrec wrote: post #557
bzzzt wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the alternative? Windows has also become incredibly grating with even more telemetry and commercial offerings embedded in the OS (especially the home versions). If you think of macOS as 'half baked' I'm curious what you think of Linux distributions with their infighting about everything from the desktop and graphics stack to which tool should start up system services. There's even less internal consistency…

I've had almost 0 problems being a power user with a KDE Plasma Arch Linux. There is internal consistency in distro lineups. Linux is not one OS. You can have the telemetry ridden but more accessible Ubuntu experience to the extremely fast and barebones Xfce Arch experience, it's your choice.

I've been someone who used Windows, MacOS and around 20 Linux distros extensively across many laptops / PCs. Always tempering, endless configuration, customization, frustration with Windows instability, MacOS inflexibility or e.g. needing to spend days so my audio works on Linux.

A couple of years ago, I picked up Thinkpad P1 (Ryzen 4800U) and got settled with Arch + Plasma. I've never before had such a snappy, quiet, stable, 3 monitors, all hardware and software just working, fully customized, and empowering experience of using a computer and went years without needing to touch anything - as it was perfect.

It ended when I couldn't resist a new MBP 14, but I've been slowly accumulating nostalgia for my Linux setup since and will surely get back to it, hopefully when Asahi Linux completes support for external monitors.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#599

Post by wyclif »

reacharavindh wrote: post #483
walteweiss wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Linux, I enjoy the idea that all the software can be interchanged. So there is no separation between the system and user installed software. For me, it’s difficult to grasp the minimalism of those other systems. When you clearly have your system as a rock that you cannot modify. I have very little experience (some theoretical and none practical) with BSDs, but it pains me there is a base system for macOS with an a…

You can install *BSDs with only the things you want. Same like you can on Linux. However, the question of default packaging holds on both sides. Trying installing the default .iso of Fedora workstation or Ubuntu-latest and see all the things Gnome brings along.. Maps, Photos, IM client, even a bundled browser (Evolution or something) that is based on Firefox but dependednt on the few Gnome packagers to keep up to dat…

re: Arch Linux. You don't have to install gnome-desktop. If you use a window manager like dwm or i3 just install those and forget about Gnome.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#600

Post by crossroadsguy »

klausbert wrote: post #588
aeyes wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what would be even better? If you could reliably uninstall all this junk or not even install it at all. Every time I hit some button on my keyboard and the Music app opens asking me to create an account I am reminded how hostile all commercial operating systems are.

I agree with you. Apple Music is particularly annoying. I recommend this free little utility: https://github.com/tombonez/noTunes

I had to mildly fight with my company’s security team to get this app allowed on my work mac.
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