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For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

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Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#591

Post by AlwaysRock »

YZF wrote: post #394
throw787653378 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway for sensitive topic. I came here to write your comment and was thrilled to find it already here. As a homeschooled kid who considers myself damaged as a result, I completely agree. The OP comment is eerily similar to stuff my parents said in the 2000s-early 10s and were totally wrong about. My parents weren't religious at all and were totally in it for academic enrichment. They were all about the "new wave…

This is an extremely loaded topic as are many child raising related questions. We have (mostly) homeschooled our kids. There are many forms of homeschooling. My kids didn't do study groups and instructional materials. We mostly did what's known as unschooling. But they ended up doing a mix of traditional schooling (with remote schools and then in person) and pursuing their own interests. I think it worked out well fo…

> I think it worked out well for them. One is in her last year of high-school (going to school full time now) and one has already graduated from university, has a job, is doing pretty well.

I don't think these are good markers for if home schooling worked or not. Being able to function in society is kind of the bare minimum positive outcome. I was able to go through my day to day just fine but had terrible social skills. Plenty of people have terrible social skills. But most of those people cant source them directly back to their schooling a decisions that were made for them.

> If I look at myself, I would say I consider myself partly damaged from going to school. I think many of my peers also have damage from the school system. It kills the desire to learn, there are negative social phenomena like bullying and other abusive situations. Many young people under peer pressure get introduced to substance abuse. There's even extremes like suicide. Schools are not a great environment for learning or for socializing. Some people do well, some people do very poorly.

Okay. So you may prevent some bullying and exposure to drugs for some years. But when the child is an adult they will almost certainly come into contact with those things. How are they going to respond? Have they learned how to deal with and handle difficult social situations? Have they been pressured by their peers to do something they know they shouldnt and had the confidence to say no?

It feels like the can is just getting kicked down the road. From my experience, many home school kids will go too far when experimenting as an adult because now they have the resources to do so and no accountability.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#592

Post by AlwaysRock »

jawns wrote: post #9
mythrwy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument about lack of socialization from failure to attend public school might have some basis. But thinking back, I came out of the public schools with some pretty anti social behaviors and attitudes that I picked up there. Being cool is so important at that age in that setting. I often wonder what life would have been like had I been taken out say, age 12 or 13 and given a more solid education to match my natu…

That argument held sway with me for a long time, but not anymore. Our kids get a decent amount of socialization through all the activities they're involved in, and when other kids find out they're homeschooled, their response is more often genuine surprise rather than "Oh, that figures." The idea that kids learn social skills best by being thrown into a rigid, institutional environment surrounded by hundreds of other…

The idea that kids learn social skills from… socializing daily is silly? Your straw man is about as weak as they get.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#593

Post by AlwaysRock »

roughly wrote: post #25
mythrwy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument about lack of socialization from failure to attend public school might have some basis. But thinking back, I came out of the public schools with some pretty anti social behaviors and attitudes that I picked up there. Being cool is so important at that age in that setting. I often wonder what life would have been like had I been taken out say, age 12 or 13 and given a more solid education to match my natu…

A relative is homeschooling their kids, and they’re not doing a great job of it academically, but those kids are some of the sweetest, most light hearted and caring kids I’ve ever been around. I learned some socialization at public school, sure. I also learned what it was to have a bureaucracy just roll over you because nobody involved cared enough to notice you were there. Those kids will have that experience eventu…

Being sweet or conforming to a parents/adults idea of what a good child should act like does not equate to good social skills. It means they understand how to act around adults, likely, because they are around their parents regularly and have that behavior engrained.

That has nothing to do with their ability to socialize with their peers. This is a pretty common home school kid issue. Great with adults. Not great with other kids. Adults don't care because they are well behaved and the kids dont know how to vocalize that they have difficulties socializing with others their age.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#594

Post by robertlagrant »

treis wrote: post #565
robertlagrant wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't understand. Can you put it more straightforwardly?

They said: >And some states allow redirecting funds from state education money to pay for this new scam. My point is that their admin fee is significantly less than what my local school district spends per pupil in admin. So redirecting money from public schools to them is not a "scam". It'd be a significant savings if it were theoretically possible.

Oh! Wow - I'd never have guessed that. Thanks, and I agree with that point.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#595

Post by YZF »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #591
YZF wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely loaded topic as are many child raising related questions. We have (mostly) homeschooled our kids. There are many forms of homeschooling. My kids didn't do study groups and instructional materials. We mostly did what's known as unschooling. But they ended up doing a mix of traditional schooling (with remote schools and then in person) and pursuing their own interests. I think it worked out well fo…

> I think it worked out well for them. One is in her last year of high-school (going to school full time now) and one has already graduated from university, has a job, is doing pretty well. I don't think these are good markers for if home schooling worked or not. Being able to function in society is kind of the bare minimum positive outcome. I was able to go through my day to day just fine but had terrible social ski…

I would consider school to be an environment too artificial to learn good social skills. Home schooling shouldn't mean being isolated- ideally it means more realistic interactions with others.

I'm not the most social person myself, despite (because?) having gone to school, and neither is my wife. I'm sure there's many factors other than traditional school vs. not.

When you're an adult you are better equipped to deal with bad things in the real world. Your experiences as a child have an impact on that.

We were part of a local homeschooling group for many years and have seen many children go through it and are still in touch with those families. Haven't really seen the negative results you're describing. I feel there's a big difference between home schooling in the context of a supportive community vs. being isolated and there's also a big differences between various approaches to homeschooling, distance learning, unschooling and more. It's hard to say much without more data.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#596

Post by YZF »

YZF wrote: post #595
AlwaysRock wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it worked out well for them. One is in her last year of high-school (going to school full time now) and one has already graduated from university, has a job, is doing pretty well. I don't think these are good markers for if home schooling worked or not. Being able to function in society is kind of the bare minimum positive outcome. I was able to go through my day to day just fine but had terrible social ski…

I would consider school to be an environment too artificial to learn good social skills. Home schooling shouldn't mean being isolated- ideally it means more realistic interactions with others. I'm not the most social person myself, despite (because?) having gone to school, and neither is my wife. I'm sure there's many factors other than traditional school vs. not. When you're an adult you are better equipped to deal…

Random supporting study: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED573486.pdf

I didn't explore it at depth but at least better than pure speculation.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#597

Post by JackMorgan »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #355
JackMorgan wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very good point. Public and private schools for all of recorded history have countless examples of child abuse. Kids die with alarming frequency in public schools. In 2022 there was an average of one shooting a week in US public schools. Even if you decide that the risks are not that high of a kid actually dying, there's a very real chilling effect. There's now paranoia, stress, and an atmosphere of fear. These are…

> In 2022 there was an average of one shooting a week in US public schools. Not to downplay the tragedy of what we think of in terms of a school shooting… But the claim you are making is NOT what we think of, a Covington or Coloumbine or Uvalde. That stat is a gun control talking point intentionally designed to mislead. That list counts any shooting within a few blocks of a school, and at any time of day. There is on…

See my last paragraph. The chances of a kid dying is extremely low. The paranoia, fear, and desire to make it safer have caused many schools to feel like minimum security prisons.
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