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Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

economist.com

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Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#591

Post by cityofdelusion »

munificent wrote: post #166
asciimov wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously miss compact trucks, like the Mazda B-series, Ford Courier, Ford Ranger (before it became a mid-size in 2019). These kinds of trucks might more to your liking. Sure they aren't as small and cute as the imports, but your local auto store can still get you parts for them. They are fun to drive, fairly fuel efficient, and are capable of hauling material from the home center. I learned to drive stick, and how…

I still drive a manual 2002 Toyota Tacoma and you'll have to claw it out of my dead hands for this exact reason. I really love the utility of a pick-up truck, but I absolutely despise the size of any of them in the US in the past couple of decades. I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized. A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of…

I drive past a 1970s Ford truck daily and nothing has changed with sizes in the same vehicle category. Newer cars are just more bulbous and thicker. Full-size pickups have been just short of 80" wide since regulations in the 1960s on clearance lights. What _did_ change is the compact truck category vanished for a while (and those compacts were then re-designed as mid-sized). The category is making a comeback now with unibody trucklets like the Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz.

But no, a new Tacoma isn't even close to the size of an old Tundra (212 vs 230 inches length, 75 vs 79 inch width). Also a new Tundra is right there with the size of an old Tundra (233 vs 230 inches length for double cab, same width)

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#592

Post by afloyd »

mayama wrote: post #389
wyager wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama era emissions regs make it impossible for (new) small trucks to be economically feasible. The way the regulations work disproportionately punish small vehicles.

Wasn't the emission requirements raised for trucks too? How is it only affecting small vehicles?

it scales with vehicle volume, the larger the truck, the less strict the regulations become

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#593

Post by GiorgioG »

smolder wrote: post #577
GiorgioG wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My F150 pollutes much less than my wife’s car simply by virtue of me working from home while she commutes every day. Taking up more space is not an issue for people who don’t live in big cities. Trucks are not more inherently dangerous than any other vehicle just because of their size. If that were the case let’s outlaw semis, delivery trucks and anything larger than a VW Golf (a car I had & loved in my youth.) You f…

I think most people agree that "live and let live" is a good philosophy, but it's also tough to reconcile with the global tragedy of the commons wherein we destroy the earths ecosystems because we all have our eyes set on completely unsustainable standards of living.

Light-duty vehicles, including sedans, SUVs and pickup trucks, are currently responsible for 58% of U.S. transportation sector greenhouse gas emissions. Pickup trucks accounted for 14% of light-duty vehicle sales in the United States in 2020... (https://news.umich.edu/study-greater-greenhouse-gas-reductio...)

The sky isn't falling and pickup trucks aren't that big of a problem from an emissions standpoint (my F-150 gets 19mpg, within 1mpg of my wife's minivan and my neighbor's Toyota Highlander. Passenger car/truck transportation accounts for 7% of the world's emissions. People are acting like buying EVs and small cars is going to make a damn bit of difference.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#594

Post by fortuna86 »

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #489
fortuna86 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US isn't even on the top 10 list of worst / most aggressive drivers. They at least respect lanes as drawn on the road.

But they're too dumb to understand the passing lane.

[dead]

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#595

Post by smolder »

GiorgioG wrote: post #593
smolder wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people agree that "live and let live" is a good philosophy, but it's also tough to reconcile with the global tragedy of the commons wherein we destroy the earths ecosystems because we all have our eyes set on completely unsustainable standards of living.

Light-duty vehicles, including sedans, SUVs and pickup trucks, are currently responsible for 58% of U.S. transportation sector greenhouse gas emissions. Pickup trucks accounted for 14% of light-duty vehicle sales in the United States in 2020... ( https://news.umich.edu/study-greater-greenhouse-gas-reductio... ) The sky isn't falling and pickup trucks aren't that big of a problem from an emissions standpoint (my F-150…

I wasn't trying to imply people who have less efficient vehicles are somehow wrong or bad, just pointing out that there's some dissonance between the otherwise rational libertarian mindset (live and let live) and the big looming global problem that is unsolvable without cooperative effort. People getting upset about each others personal excesses is understandable, even if misplaced and/or unproductive.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#596

Post by upofadown »

worthless-trash wrote: post #370
upofadown wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota can't import trucks with such a small footprint. That would screw up their fuel efficiency metric. That could lead to fines from the US government. That is the primary issue here that prevents the sale of small trucks in the US. With the current regulations, it makes the most sense to sell trucks with the longest wheelbase and largest width.

Can you explain this a little more (I dont live in the US and a preliminary search is failing me). It sounds as though the 'regulations' are preventing US consumers from having a choice in trucks, which.. kinda makes no sense from what I've seen in the wide range of oversized trucks in the US.

Putting the truck vs cars issue aside, there is still an incentive to make large wide trucks. The fuel efficiency allowance is based on the vehicle's "footprint" which is the distance between the wheels side to side times the distance between the wheels front to back. This metric comes out to some number of square feet. The fuel efficiency allowance is proportional to the number of square feet. Larger trucks are allowed to consume more fuel without penalty.

Now it turns out that making a truck, say, longer by 10% does not increase the fuel consumption by 10%. If you are a manufacturer, you want to maximize the ratio of the allowance based on the square footage divided by the actual measured fuel consumption of the vehicle. The sweet spot comes out on the large side. So the fuel efficiency regulation, ironically, is causing a trend that leads to more total fuel consumption.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#597

Post by TingPing »

bombcar wrote: post #443
nickpeterson wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been downvoted over this before but really we just need weight limits on cars. Efficiency is pretty closely aligned and we seem to regulate that just fine.

Very small cars are available in the USA, people just don’t buy many. Mini Cooper, smart, these exist.

Smart cars are no longer sold in the US. In general options are limited. Previously compact cars like the Civic are now midsize. And even then they produce them in low volumes so they are always sold with a markup.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#598

Post by deelowe »

dcow wrote: post #411
deelowe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rule ain't changing unfortunately. Regulatory capture is STRONG with automotive and the US sees it as a matter of national security (car makers would be pivoted to other ares in times of war).

These days you’d think the US would do the same for compute power. I suspect microchip production will play a huge role in the next war.

They are. Foxconn and Quanta both have a presence in the US due to incentives. TSMC is building in the US. Intel gets subsidies to stay in they US. Etc...

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#599

Post by deelowe »

adrr wrote: post #320
deelowe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rule ain't changing unfortunately. Regulatory capture is STRONG with automotive and the US sees it as a matter of national security (car makers would be pivoted to other ares in times of war).

You can import a car that meets US requirements. Just do European delivery on a Porsche or Mercedes.

And both have large manufacturing presences in the US b/c it cuts costs. That's the incentive.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#600

Post by munificent »

cityofdelusion wrote: post #591
munificent wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still drive a manual 2002 Toyota Tacoma and you'll have to claw it out of my dead hands for this exact reason. I really love the utility of a pick-up truck, but I absolutely despise the size of any of them in the US in the past couple of decades. I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized. A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of…

I drive past a 1970s Ford truck daily and nothing has changed with sizes in the same vehicle category. Newer cars are just more bulbous and thicker. Full-size pickups have been just short of 80" wide since regulations in the 1960s on clearance lights. What _did_ change is the compact truck category vanished for a while (and those compacts were then re-designed as mid-sized). The category is making a comeback now with…

Here's the specs from Edmund's:

                                    length    bed
    2002 Tacoma 2-door              184.4"  74.5"
    No 2022 model                   --- -   -- -

    2002 Tacoma Xtracab             202.9"  74.5"
    2022 Tacoma 4-door access cab   212.3"  73.7"

    2002 Tacoma 4-door              202.9"  61.5"
    2022 Tacoma 4-door double cab   212.3"  60.5"

    2002 Tundra 2-door              217.5"  98.2"
    No 2022 model                   --- -   -- -

    2002 Tundra 4-door access cab   217.5"  74.7"
    No 2022 model                   --- -   -- -

    No 2002 model                   --- -   -- -
    2022 Tundra 4-door double cab   233.6"  77.6"
So with Tundras, there's no way to directly compare since they didn't offer double cabs in 2002, and offer only them in 2022.

But with Tacomas, you can see that in the same category, they've gotten about ten inches longer (while losing some bed length!).

A 2022 Tacoma access cab is 212.3", less than five inches shorter than a 2002 Tundra access cab.

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