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There's something off about LED bulbs

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Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#591

Post by Joker_vD »

Zak wrote: post #574
Joker_vD wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trying to cram all the infrastructure for an LED lamp into the shape of a light bulb is a bad idea, even if the input power is DC. Absolutely, the incandescent light bulbs have that shape for a reason: the screw is small because there is nothing to put in it and it doesn't heat, the bulb is large to dissipate all the light and heat it generates. And the LED light bulbs have exactly opposite problems: almost all of…

I don't think we're exactly stuck with the old form factor. We can start phasing them out. Replacement of screw sockets with modern fixtures is well within the capabilities of the average DIYer (though perhaps some places it's illegal for anyone but a professional electrician to touch anything hardwired).

Well, one of the main sales point of the LED bulbs was compatibility with existing E14/E27/etc sockets: no need to change the wiring, or the fixtures, just buy a new, better light bulb and screw it right in! It will also serve longer and be better for the environment, what's not to like? We'll even ban the sales of 100W and higher incandescent light bulbs to help you make the right choice!

That's also the pitch of the smart bulbs: a sane way would be to make a smart light switch but what if you can't do that (e.g., you rent the apartment)? So we'll shove the controller chip into a disposable light bulb, that's still perfectly fine for the environment.

By the way, I don't know how things turned out in your part of the world but over here, after the ban went into the force the manufacturers of incandescent lightbulb started selling 95W light bulbs 8D

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#593

Post by nielsbot »

formerly_proven wrote: post #24

There's a lot wrong with LEDs in general and retrofit (E27 bulbs) in particular. In no particular order - LED emitters driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Power supplies driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Poor CRI and SSRI - Flickering - Dim-to-warm is uncommon - Poorly designed power supplies that age and fail quickly - The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve wit…

They're pricier but you can get LED bulbs that have better color rendering

For example https://www.soraa.com/products/50-Soraa-VIVID-A19-(120v).php...

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#594

Post by 6510 »

xxs wrote: post #567
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is possible (and not very difficult) to design LED bulbs that will practically outlive their owners It is also possible (and not very difficult) to design incandescent bulbs that will outlive their owners. In fact, the first mass produced light bulbs generally lasted 2,500+ hours. In the 1920s, the major bulb manufacturers formed the 'Pheobus Cartel' in Geneva and secretly colluded to limit the lifespan of bulbs…

incandescent light bulbs efficiency increases with their temperature/current. At low enough current they will last long enough but waste a lot energy as well. You can dim them, and provide a slow start to prevent the inrush current (which is like 10times more than nominal with tungsten resistance increasing due so high 2500K temps).

put them in series

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#595

Post by wankle »

dwighttk wrote: post #331
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never seen more than 15000 hours from an LED bulb at best. With the LED bulbs at our home (many of which have failed!), the problem is always the inverter. They just start flickering wildly and inconsistently one day, which is never pleasant, and they need to be replaced. It's frustrating because when the LEDs have stable power, they can produce just as much brightness as before, but their integrated power-con…

I wonder if it’d be worth it to centralize the inverter…

gjsman-1000's point and yours make sense and somewhere on the page it was suggested to start running DC power just for LED lighting in homes. Until then, our new plan is to use LED light strips and stop buying LED bulbs. The idea is that the strips have an external power supply so I'm hoping the LED's will have the lifetime they deserve.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#596

Post by bondarchuk »

mturmon wrote: post #551
bondarchuk wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that previously the low-effort default option was great, and now the low-effort default option is bad and to get the equivalent of the previous great default you must now spend a bunch of extra time and money. "Caring about CRI" is basically just caring about the human visual system working correctly, that shouldn't be some weird niche. Besides, I don't control the lighting decisions of every place I g…

> previously the low-effort default option was great You mean incandescents? I disagree, their efficiency is terrible ("space heaters that happen to glow"). And their lifespan was artificially limited.

Fair enough. But at least the light was good.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#597

Post by garaetjjte »

zaroth wrote: post #358
bryanlarsen wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had 2 standard DC outlets for a while now: 12V cigarette lighter and 5V USB. You do often see them in odd places. But the voltage and wattage of those specs is too low to be useful, so they haven't evolved into DC power distribution. USB-C PD is at a useful voltage & wattage level, and so is Ethernet POE. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start to be used for general power distribution in niche applications,…

Cars are starting to move to 48V DC. My under cabinet lighting in the kitchen are powered by DC from a power supply in the basement. I could definitely see this becoming more common. Powering the ~100 watts of fixed lighting spread across my whole house on ten different 15A 120v circuits, each with their own arcfault breaker and 12 gauge copper electrical lines running back to the panel is fabulously expensive for wh…

>screw in a standard bulb - what happens when it sees 48V DC?

Either it lights up or not? I don't see a problem here.

But I'm not sure moving part of power supply elsewhere will help that much, it needs current driver electronics anyway.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#598

Post by TD-Linux »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #228
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #150

I hate how many of these things aren't limits of the technology but rather the result of cost optimization and general apathy towards the customer. We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire TVs are made of the things. We know how to mass-produce rectifiers pretty much ever since diodes existed. We know how to cool mass-produced objects in compact spaces. But because we apparently can't have nice th…

You can go buy high CRI, high quality bulbs right now. Nothing is stopping you. Here is one common vendor: https://store.waveformlighting.com/collections/a19-bulbs/ The issue isn’t that MBAs have cost reduced bulbs for no reason. The issue is that 95% of consumers will only choose the cheap bulbs, period. As a result, that’s what gets produced at scale. > We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire T…

Waveform Lighting bulbs have a great CRI and no camera visible flicker, but even they are overdriven/undercooled. I've already had one fail because of the PFC chip (I did an autopsy). They also don't have enough bulk capacitance to not flicker when other nasty loads are on the line.

I did find these tables from Budget Light Forums handy for shopping, however the fact that you have to use these I think only reinforces the point of the article:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12jj1A6PNjHmWbFNu0FSi...

https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#599

Post by KennyBlanken »

zippergz wrote: post #335
rootusrootus wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am also in the Europe, most other commenters seem to be from the US. You're falling for the "Europe is better than the US, of course" mindset. What you are actually seeing are partisans spinning a narrative to fit their ideology, not an accurate description of reality. We have really high CRI bulbs here, too, and they're inexpensive. I can go down to the home store and buy them by the dozen. I'll bet you money th…

Please link me to a 95+ CRI bulb available at Home Depot or Lowe's.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%253Ahomedepot.com+CRI

Cree, GE's "HD" line, Phillips' high CRI line, and I believe "Feit", the HD brand, also has high CRI bulbs.

You can only get Cree bulbs from HD via shipping; they don't stock them in store, at least in my area.

Phillips and GE HD bulbs are available in a lot of local hardware stores and even pharmacies.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#600

Post by bradleyjg »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #456
piuantiderp wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the tragedy of modern times in the West. Hard to get anything quality without tons of research. Not even about the money, there's just too much noise

Yeah, just paying £2000 fot an item does not mean you got anything quality - 90% chance you got scammed

Yes, exactly. It’s one thing to need to be an expert to find a diamond in the rough. It’s another to not be able to guarantee you’ll get a premium product by going to a reputable retailer and picking out an expensive whatever. That’s the really frustrating part.

I think the issue is that there are no more reputable retailers. Just amazon, which more than half the time isn’t even amazon.

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