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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#591

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What about YouTube? Lots of educational material there. Fits all of the points.

There is YouTube for kids which is meant to be more stripped down.

I've found YouTube kids content to be significantly worse than general YouTube content. Not to say that there isn't a lot of content inappropriate for kids on YouTube, but the Kids version is explicitly designed to target kids with addictive content. The advertisers targeting children for their products is brutal on YouTube Kids. Since pushing my kids onto the full YouTube, they are consuming better content.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#592

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Interesting argument. Can a site without discrete named accounts, where everyone is called 'Anonymous', claim that there's no way to verify whether the content is generated by humans? It's basically the 4chan model.

No need to even do that. The law defines 'social media platform' in terms of what account holders can do, and 'social media company' in terms of the number of account holders. It really goes out of its way to distinguish 'users' and 'account holders', and if there are no account holders, it’s not social media. Apparently.

So kids can visit 4chan, but not TikTok. Makes sense.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will continue posting links to Jonathan Haidt's review docs all over this thread. Social media and smartphones became widespread in the early 2010s, and that's exactly when teen suicides started rising. [1] COVID does not appear to have significantly affected teen mental health [2] If you have evidence that something else is driving the rise in teen suicide rates, I'd love to see it. [1] https://jonathanhaidt.subst…

> Social media and smartphones became widespread in the early 2010s Among adults (or in “household” surveys where adults were surveyed? Sure, but the majority of teen internet users were using “social networking sites” in 2006.) [0] If your contention is that adult social media use is driving teen suicide rates…well, that’s actually more plausible than teen use, but none of the policy responses address that. [0] http…

> the majority of teen internet users

This stat can't be meaningfully compared to teen suicide rates because the latter is across all teens, regardless of online/offline status. If the number of "online" teens grew dramatically between 2006 and 2013 (as I suspect it did), then the relative change in percentage of "online" teens on social media would be a fraction of the much larger change in teens in general.

My personal experience growing up around then is that a majority of my peers weren't deep in social media and smartphone use until well into the 2010s. I didn't have a smartphone when I graduated high school in the early 2010s, and I certainly wasn't an outlier at the time.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#594
post #569

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Because every law we write is ultimately arbitrary. Lines have to be drawn through massive swaths of gray area, those lines are entirely arbitrary and should be a sign that making laws like this is pointless. The 90s Era gun ban that Biden was so proud of is a perfect example. They had to include so many caveats and arbitrary descriptions of what makes a gun an "assault rifle" that manufacturers just dodged the rules…

I meant where does this law mention 5 million ?

Hah, sorry! I misread your question and have been thinking a lot about that topics lately!

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#595
post #422

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Hopefully this is hyperbole. Seems a bit extreme to hope the government legislates away industries because you don't want to handle the parenting yourself.

You can ban social media as a parent today and damage your child's social life. If it's banned for every child equally, they will have to meet up irl or call each other like in the 80s or whatever. Whatever the alternative, it shifts the dynamic and doesn't isolate your child. Regulations for kids is not simply about bad parenting but can be about prisoner's dilemma-like situations where everyone needs to work togeth…

We should also enforce strict school dress codes so students don't have to see other students wearing new shoes and feel pressured to update their wardrobe right? Kids shouldn't be able to talk about family vacations because it might make other students jealous and hurt their mental health. We need to ban these books because it might make kids feel bad about themselves. Where do these ridiculous steps end?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#596
post #189

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Do you think one would have to be on a network with at least 5 million users to get this sort of support as opposed to a smaller one, perhaps specifically oriented towards this sort of stuff? The latter is as legal as before I think.

If you join the GaySupportForum, it’s really obvious why. That could be problematic or even dangerous for someone. If you join Facebook, it doesn’t signal anything because everyone is on Facebook. Or Instagram. Or TikTok. Or any of the other called out platforms.

I said "perhaps". Just join a social network with less than 5m users without "gay" in its name then. This attitude of trying to help a monopoly and pretend it's good just baffles me.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every law we write is ultimately arbitrary. Lines have to be drawn through massive swaths of gray area, those lines are entirely arbitrary and should be a sign that making laws like this is pointless. The 90s Era gun ban that Biden was so proud of is a perfect example. They had to include so many caveats and arbitrary descriptions of what makes a gun an "assault rifle" that manufacturers just dodged the rules…

Marginalium: Some laws are arbitrary, not all. They may all be contingent , which is different from arbitrary. Ultimately, law is a prudential determination of moral principle.

The distinction between arbitrary and contingent is very muddy in a legal sense where arbitrary has a specific meaning related to laws and court decisions. The two relevant definitions of arbitrary are:

> based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something

> law : depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law

A law itself fits the first definition. At best, a law is written by a tiny minority of the population but with the intent of best reflecting the majority opinion or preference.

I'd be really interested to hear an example of a law that is based on necessity or intrinsic nature, though maybe there are a few!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#598

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Social media is not the same as it was 10 years ago. The level of which kids compare themselves to other kids took an exponential leap to a near hive mind level. Constantly comparing themselves to the instagram people with fake lives, rich kids, or extremely beautiful people is mentally damaging them. My daughter asked me for plastic surgery, and I was dumbfounded. So I went check her internet logs, and she's been wa…

The mental health of teens and pre-teens has gotten really bad. This isn't just another "think of the children scare." Since the early 2010s the rate of self harm among girls 10-14 has ~tripled, and the rate of suicide among 10-14 year olds has doubled [1]. And there is now lots of evidence that this is because of social media and smartphones. The social lives of kids have changed drastically, in a way that does not…

> https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/the-teen-mental-illness...

I don't necessarily buy the premise that the economy isn't having poor effects on teenagers' mental health just because the GFC is "over". Maybe to financial markets it is, but for people who need to work for a living, things changed since 2008 for the worse.

Teens are more likely to see their parents struggle to pay bills despite working full-time and with two incomes, they're more likely to see their parents face real threats like being unable to afford housing and the consequences that brings, they're going to see how the march of increasing costs of living affects their family in the face of stagnant wages. They also see countless examples of older people who do "everything right", yet are still laid off and can't re-enter the workforce in the same capacity as they had in the past, and are pushed out of their careers entirely.

On top of that, they're being told that they'll be relegated to a life of even worse poverty if they don't get into a good college, but even then, they aren't guaranteed a sustainable job and will have to take out a mortgage-sized loan just to attend. That loan will hang around their necks until they die even if they're only able to find a job that pays $30k a year. And if they want a job that even pays that much, they'll need a degree anyway, because those jobs have degree requirements, too.

I can understand why that would be overwhelming and depressing to teenagers.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#599
post #204

Related, but my prediction is that by the end of the decade internet anonymity will be gone forever. Social will be the first place it falls with governments requiring SSO to a government run IdP that is verified by ID

It's not impossible, but that's a lot of tech for the fed to setup and they aren't the best at consumer level software. There's also the fact that many political players utilize the anonymity of the internet in their campaign tactics. Not to mention the possibility of connecting to a VPN to circumvent the requirement for using a US ID. I think it's more likely to see intelligence agencies insist on more direct contro…

They'd probably outsource it. REAL ID by Meta or something horribly dystopian like that

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#600

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“WASP” has the specific connotation of northeastern white people of longstanding American lineage. (The term typically excludes southern and Appalachian whites that technically also are Anglo Saxon and Protestant.) Those people are the vanguard of social liberalism today, in states like Massachusetts and Connecticut. In Florida, meanwhile, non-Hispanic whites are just 51% of the population (versus 65-70% in Massachus…

The graphic depiction of underage people engaged in sex acts is against federal law and most likely Texas law as well. It is baffling to me how the media depicts this as "anti trans" or "anti lgbt" book banning while managing to never mention the specifics of the books. I'm about as liberal as they come on social issues. But I don't think these books are appropriate in an elementary or middle school library.

> It is baffling to me how the media depicts this as "anti trans" or "anti lgbt" book banning while managing to never mention the specifics of the books.

It’s because a lot of people are using a small number of sexual minorities as a pretext for encouraging everyone’s kids to explore their sexuality.

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