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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#591

Post by buffington »

ddulaney wrote: post #395
tsgagnon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

> so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as possible What. No! At an absolute minimum, I want to be aware of any changes to the thing in my life most likely to kill me. Maybe we could use a better term like "Software Fuckup Remediation" or "Holy Shit How Did We Not Get The Brakes Right".

If there were a word for "we would do anything we could possibly do, legally or otherwise, and more if we knew how, to avoid having to spend a second or a penny trying to fix the thing we knew was broken when we sold it to you, but the government is looking at us funny and we might get sued if we don't, so we'll grudgingly do it,", it'd probably be "recall."

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#592

Post by bigtex88 »

pbreit wrote: post #587
literalAardvark wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think I'd still go with Rockefeller on that one.

One oil company?

You're trolling, aren't you? No one can be this stupid, especially not someone who reads this blog.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#593

Post by 93po »

dylan604 wrote: post #467
justapassenger wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how does that change anything about my statements? Yeah, they have QA. But for the problem they claim they’re solving (robotaxis) and speed of pushing stuff to customers (on the order of days) it vastly, vastly insufficient. And it lacks any safety lifecycle process regards - again, just look at the timelines. Even if you’re super efficient, you cannot possibly claim you can even such a basic things like proper c…

> and speed of pushing stuff to customers (on the order of days) well, if you don't get the software pushed to the QA team (the customers), how else are they going to get it tested?

can we please stop with this disinformation? the customers are not the QA team.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#594

Post by hunter2_ »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #363
pclmulqdq wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Honda had 2 recalls on it recently: one was a software update and the other was over the fact that a few of the cables on the audio system were slightly too short. This sounds like the same thing other than the fact that I had to pop over to the dealership to do them. Even with the cable replacement, in and out in an hour with a nice lounge to sit in.

If the software update has to be done physically at a dealer location, that's a recall. The scenario in this article is an over-the-air update.

I just looked it up. The relevant definition of recall is to request returning a product.

If it's possible to buy a software license online and then return it online after deciding you no longer want it (i.e., a non-physical return), then it stands to reason that Tesla can request that you return the defective software OTA and receive replacement software OTA, and that would be a recall. The fact that you are forced into returning the defective software by virtue of not having the opportunity to block the return request is a fairly minor detail.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#595

Post by [deleted] »

dmix wrote: post #501
clnq wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that calling it a "recall" emphasises the severity of the problem, which might make it easier to argue that a lot is being done for customer safety to the interested authorities. But I don't think Tesla wants this to be seen more than an OTA update from the perspective of their customers (at least those who ignore Tesla news). I had a VW car that was "recalled" shortly following the emissions scandal.…

The industry needs to come up with a new related term like "Software Recall" Recalling the hardware is a drastically more difficult request to impose on customers and financially/logistically for the car maker. That's a disporportate response just to highlight importance of an OTA update.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#596

Post by culi »

InCityDreams wrote: post #487
kbos87 wrote: post #430

The amount of hyperbole and completely uninformed takes around FSD is eye opening. I’ll completely agree that “Full self driving” is a misleading name, and they should be forced to change it, full stop. That being said, it’s exceptionally clear that all the responsibility is on you, the driver, while you are using it. The messaging in the vehicle is concise and constant (not just the wall of text you read when opting…

>....“Full self driving” is a misleading name, and they should be forced to change it, full stop. Problem and solution. Nothing more need be said.

This one issue is one of the primary reasons Google ended up deciding not to acquire Tesla really early on. Google's been way ahead of them for a long time and their engineers were extremely aware of how reckless this type of marketing from Musk was

But the marketing worked. They sold the dream to people and only got sued a couple times and still got the most subsidization of any automaker

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#597

Post by esalman »

justapassenger wrote: post #306
panick21_ wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have actual knowlage of Tesla internal QA processes, any kind of source at all? Based on there presentation, they for sure have a whole load of tests, many built directly from real world situation that the car has to handle. They simulate sensor input based on the simulation and check the car does the right thing. They very likely have some internal test drivers and before the software goes public it goes to t…

2 sources. 1. I know people working at Tesla. 2. Much more important one - Elon's Twitter feed. They're doing last minute changes, and once it compiles and passes some automated tests, it's tested internally only over few days before it's released to the customers. Even if they had world class internal testing (they don't), for something having to work in such a diverse environment like self driving system without an…

Some manufacturers hold off on newer, untested tech for years before adding that to their vehicles. This is what happens when safely is a priority.

That's why I bought/will keep buying Toyota/Lexus.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#600

Post by londons_explore »

londons_explore wrote: post #599

This just a few days before the much anticipated 'v11' software release... V11 supposedly uses neural nets for deciding the driving path and speed (rather than hand coded C++ rules).

I would imagine v11 will be cancelled or at least massively delayed to deal with this recall...
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