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Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

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Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#591

Post by baxtr »

karaterobot wrote: post #386

It's too bad, because the best managers I've worked with were not good ICs, but they did multiply the effectiveness of the ICs they worked with, and so were absolutely invaluable to the company in a way that may not have shown up on paper. If those people exist in FB, as I'm sure they must, then they'd presumably get jettisoned as a result of this choice. That would be bad long term. I used to despise managers, until…

Could you describe how these 2 were different from the rest? How did they act differently?

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#592

Post by yolovoe »

aprdm wrote: post #447
0xB31B1B wrote: post #113

I think this is a great move. My understanding is that some reporting chains in facebook have 12 links between IC and Zuckerberg, which is crazy inefficient. Enormous organizations are able to run effectively with 5-6 links from IC to CEO. Managers managing managers managing turtles all the way down is a horrible form of "administrative bloat". You see bloat like this in enormous organizations like colleges, governme…

Do you have source for 12? That indeed seems pretty crazy.

I have seen such chains at Amazon. IC -> Manager -> Sr Manager -> Director -> VP -> SVP -> CEO of AWS -> CEO of Amazon.

That's only 7, but some links repeat. For example, I have seen Sr Manager report to another Sr Manager. Likewise, a VP report to another VP, and a Director report to another one.

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#593

Post by germinalphrase »

dekhn wrote: post #64

I've been a manager once- only because of necessity while working at a rapidly growing startup- and it's not a role for me. I loved being an IC at Google and other employers, and no matter how much I tried, I couldn't convince myself that by being a manager I'd have more impact, or achieve more of my goals, or be happier. I'd like to see more people-managers who aren't also product-managers and tech-leads: people who…

People with those skills probably developed them in a job that wouldn’t get a foot in the door of most tech companies.

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#595

Post by vdchuyen »

antipaul wrote: post #512
khazhoux wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management track is usually the only way to be in the room where decisions get made. Sure, the top engineers will be consulted and kept in the loop, but 99% of the strategy discussions and planning happens without them. So for people with an innate need to join in the steering of the ship, there’s only one career path.

Is it possible to do both? I hear senior VPs like Craig Federighi, Jeff Dean, and others, still write code (maybe 1 day a week but still), but also call the big shots

[dead]

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#597

Post by superjan »

Aeolun wrote: post #465
superjan wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, if you want your reports to accept company decisions, it is in your interest as a manager to align your stated opinions with company policy. Openly disagreeing, or just trying to take a neutral position will only reduce faith in the company and sow unrest for which you will be held accountable.

Isn’t that the entire purpose of being a manager? If I were just going to repeat the company line and not advocate for my team then I might as well be a rock.

You can and should do both. What I wrote above is a job a manager has to do every now and then, not the fun part, but also hard to evade.

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#598

Post by flashgordon »

solarmist wrote: post #513
flashgordon wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the company saying I don't believe X gets relayed back up your chain with eventual unpleasant consequences (hey so and so doesn't agree with this management decision so they must be a misfit and can't be trusted to put the company first)

Absolutely, but also a massive red flag if you can’t respectfully disagree with your bosses.

Absolutely. There is no disrespect anywhere here. I don't need to agree to do my job well. Just that I don't feel safe enough to be vocal about sharing my thoughts -)

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#599

Post by somsak2 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #553
alex_sf wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made it much harder on yourself. You should have just fired that one person. But, management.

Definitely said from someone that has never been a manager. FWIW, it's never that easy to fire someone, and it gets even more difficult when you need to worry about protected class issues.

Best not to make quick assumptions about others.

Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave

#600

Post by awa »

lumost wrote: post #528
facet1ous wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, absolutely this. Once you hit senior ranks in engineering at a big tech firm, it's actually very difficult to move upwards. Very few people are ever made principal engineers or senior staff or even staff level for that matter. The jump in technical ability for those levels is quite large as well and can take many years to get a single promotion since openings are pretty slim as well (some orgs will only get 1-2…

I really don't understand this pattern at companies. It seems entirely feasible to simply let IC's take on more responsibility. It's easier to shuffle responsibility amongst ICs compared to managers without rocking the boat - why would orgs incentivize a "fixed" management structure?

It creates the problem of too many chefs but too few cooks. Too many people discussing how to best construct a thing vs actually constructing the thing.
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