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Bard and new AI features in Search

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Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#591

Post by moffkalast »

rchaud wrote: post #458
moffkalast wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may actually be fantastic for the web. The current incentives are terrible anyway: cheat, scam and SEO your way to the first search result page and then do whatever since you'll get visits and decent ad revenue regardless of content. Most people that make good content don't make it for money anyway. Did people back in the pre-google days think "oh I'd make this site but gosh darn there's nobody to pay me for it"…

> Did people back in the pre-google days think "oh I'd make this site but gosh darn there's nobody to pay me for it". Google is a huge part of the reason the old web doesn't exist anymore. Artisanal websites cannot compete for visibility against corporate websites that have staff dedicated to figuring out SEO tricks from every imaginable source: page speed, HTTPS, image compression, meta tags. The hobbyist back then…

I don't see why SSL is that much of an issue these days. Cloudflare does it for free, lots of hosting providers can handle let's encrypt for you.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#592

Post by firecall »

That is the worst press-release I've read for years.

In that it's overly wordy, lacking in information, generally hard to read, boring and left me not knowing if there was an announcement of a product of not?

Dreadful.

Maybe Bard wrote the press-release?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#593

Post by aembleton »

Denzel wrote: post #520
alain94040 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those new language models are "Google killers" because they reset all the assumptions that people have made about search for several decades. Imagine that people start using those chat bots massively as a replacement for Google search. Then the notion of keyword disappears. Google AdSense becomes mostly irrelevant. Of course, Google is a giant today with a history of machine learning innovation. So they have a good c…

All these conversations have one glaring omission. As it stands right now, ChatGPT is a net negative on the ecosystem it exists in. What does that mean? ChatGPT extracts value from the ecosystem by hoovering up primary sources to provide answers, but what value does ChatGPT give back to these primary sources? What incentivizes content creators to continue producing for ChatGPT? Right now, nothing. ChatGPT (or its des…

> but what value does ChatGPT give back to these primary sources?

The dissemination of their thoughts and ideas.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#594

Post by inimino »

pffft8888 wrote: post #530
jiggawatts wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my question is, how hard of a problem is that with LLMs? I get the sense that LLMs are trained on a very large data set all at once, but that it is difficult to incrementally update them with new data. It's the opposite. Getting an LLM to learn the basics of grammar and paragraph-level language structure is the "hard" part. Once you have that, further fine-tuning, specialisation, or other incremental changes are…

It's not about "Well behaved." All we're teaching it is our biases.

We're not even teaching it anything, all we're really doing is setting up a behaviorist training regime that lets it reproduce some of the biases of some of us, just well enough to squeeze through the Overton window that's acceptable to big corporates.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#596

Post by borland »

Tech Pundits: ZOMG ChatGPT is going to make Google Obsolete tomorrow even though it makes up false answers constantly.

Google Investors who know nothing about tech: Hey Google. Why U No AI?

Stock Market: Google ⬇

Google: Look we have some bullshit AI too! Don't forget about how smart we are!

Stock Market: Google ⬆

That's the entire point of this article, particularly why it's written by the CEO.

Will they actually have any decent AI? Who cares!

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#597

Post by kccqzy »

jklinger410 wrote: post #250
wiremine wrote: post #232

I agree this is bland corporate speak. But it reminded me of a question that's been floating around: A number of pundits, here on HN and elsewhere, keep referring to these large language models are "google killers." This just doesn't make sense to me. It feels like Google can easily pivot its ad engine to work with the AI-driven chat systems. It can augment answers with links to additional sources of information, be…

Google was already going this route. ChatGPT is simply pushing GOOG and META to go faster. Simple as.

But without ChatGPT when would Google put a LLM into Search? 2025? 2030?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#598

Post by mdasen »

xtracto wrote: post #545

At this point, Microsoft should do whatever it can to make a deal with Apple to place a ChatGPT powered platform in the iPhone/i Devices. Most of the people using "computers" nowadays do it through mobile phones, and Google has a strong grip in that market with Android, with only Apple giving them some competition. Thus the only platform where Microsoft could really compete is in iOS. If Microsoft + Apple could get t…

My question is: what kind of deal are you thinking? Would Apple pay Microsoft a lot of money for this ChatGPT-powered platform? Would Microsoft be paying Apple?

With search, Google pays Apple with the payoff being that people end up seeing Google's ads. With ChatGPT, Microsoft wouldn't be getting money so Apple would presumably need to pay Microsoft.

You've phrased it like Microsoft needs to get it on people's phones rather than Apple needing a competitor to Google's NLP (Microsoft should do whatever it can, not Apple should do whatever it can which implies that Microsoft should pay Apple). However, we haven't really seen what ChatGPT is in terms of a product yet (product, not feature).

Let's say Microsoft pays Apple to get ChatGPT onto iPhones. What does Microsoft get out of that? Bragging rights? Ads in Siri? Or maybe as part of an overall deal of Bing + ChatGPT?

I agree that things like ChatGPT are cool, but I think it's unclear (at least to me) a company like Microsoft will make money off it without charging for it (or making it terrible like allowing companies to pay for placement in ChatGPT responses like "what's the best vacuum?" gets you "The best vacuum by far is ProductPlacement. It has much better suction than CompetitorProduct"). Amazon has tried using Alexa to upsell things, but it can make Alexa really annoying at times.

They could come up with a really cool next-level Siri, but I guess I'm not sure what's in it for Microsoft in such a deal. I see what's in it for Apple and users.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#599

Post by cuteboy19 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #430
cuteboy19 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should have had the courage to weather through that noise. Or do something like Microsoft and acquire after release. These are just excuses tbh

Acquire what after release? The point GP is making is that Google's technology has been (at least to a non-expert) on-par with the external things. Why would they acquire something they already have?

My point was that this public relations issue could have been easily solved. A tech first company can easily get PR to solve it. That they didn't implies they they are past their prime. This is Xerox-Apple thing again

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#600

Post by ben_w »

inimino wrote: post #594
pffft8888 wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about "Well behaved." All we're teaching it is our biases.

We're not even teaching it anything, all we're really doing is setting up a behaviorist training regime that lets it reproduce some of the biases of some of us, just well enough to squeeze through the Overton window that's acceptable to big corporates.

I think that counts as teaching.
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