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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#591

Post by pcthrowaway »

peteforde wrote: post #518
grecy wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian, living in Canada for 10 years, just went back to Australia for 18 months, now back in Canada. I have some experience here. I love not tipping, and for me personally, the service in Australia is perfectly fine. I took my (Canadian) partner to Australia (her first time there). For her, the service was nowhere even remotely close to that of Canada. In Australia, someone might take your order (or you orde…

I had to read this a few times to make sure that, yes, you are actually implying that service in Canada is somehow particularly great. I've lived here all of my life, but traveled very extensively. I would give the typical Canadian service interaction a neutral pass; they aren't openly rude, nor are they offering to wash my car. Where are you going to eat that someone taking your order, bringing it to you and checkin…

I waited tables for years in the Southern U.S., now I live in Canada.

I find that service is highly regional even in the U.S., but as a whole, better than service in Canada.

I also think that Canadians making at least minimum wage with tips on top plays into that. In the U.S. you'd have to provide great service or you risked not making any money (technically I know your employers are supposed to top you up to minimum wage, but they do it for the pay period rather than an individual shift)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#592

Post by nicbou »

Analemma_ wrote: post #315
expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

Remember: this is HN, where the bubble effect is strong. On Hacker News, everybody "knows" that Google Search is useless these days and that Amazon results are all counterfeit junk, even though in the real world I have never heard anyone bring this up and these services are still incredibly popular. It's the same thing with cash: I don't think I've seen anyone pay with cash in years. Even the old people at the grocer…

Remember that this is also an American bubble at times. In Germany, cash is still king. You can't go long without 10€ in your wallet.

Tangential: I'm surprised that no one complains about these things. Google Search has become unbearable and Amazon is obviously bad these days. There's no way people aren't getting annoyed by the tech they use every day, yet you're right, no complaints.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#593

Post by robomartin »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

> I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month

You are brave. A friend opened a coffee shop elsewhere in LA County a few years ago. The LA County permit and inspection process was nothing less than a utopian nightmare. I have done lots of construction projects myself and have learned to absolutely detest that part of the experience (going to the DMV is actually better). The usual outcome is that projects end-up costing a ton more and take much longer to complete. The issues, in my experience, rarely have to do with actual safety concerns, etc. It's mostly about process and check-boxes. I hope your experience was better.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#594

Post by nicbou »

Jataman606 wrote: post #545
mikhael28 wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Handling cash is a hassle. It carries risk in terms of losing it, and it takes time to count it and transport/deposit it into a bank. All things that eat into your profit margin, in an industry that has crazy low margin. You a hater.

How much money you lose by counting money and depositing it into a bank?

Where I live there is also a bank fee for dealing with large amounts of cash.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#595

Post by ovao »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #441
unethical_ban wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). To play devil's advocate, credit cards are another way to get tracked, a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy, a way to be analyzed by the merchant, a way to get more explicitly prompted to pay a 20% tip, and more hassle than handing a $5 for a $4.73 coffee and…

In defense of cashless, there is so much you don’t have to worry about as the business owner; yes the credit companies take a somewhat exhorbitant percentage but you don’t have to worry about having thousands of dollars in cash at the end of the day, don’t have to worry about employees skimming or making mistakes like coming in short. It also automates a ton of the accounting. So there are some benefits.

On the other hand, you have to worry about disputes and chargebacks, of which you can only accumulate so many with your processor, and which also tend to have unfavorable outcomes for merchants.

The pros may still outweigh the cons, but it’s not all roses with cards.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#596

Post by kelnos »

jryhdtjtdhy wrote: post #364
csomar wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if all these laid off engineers will end up opening small businesses and using their skill to cut one or two employees. Maybe we'll finally get a push toward real automation.

Because then those engineers will no longer be out of a job, but some other people with a smaller skillset will be! And all will be good, because we finally had a push towards real automation!

I'm sympathetic to this argument because people can't retrain for a different job instantly, and there's mostly no safety net that allows people to take the time to retrain and still be able to provide for themselves and family while they do it.

But in the grand scheme of things, low-skill jobs should be automated to the greatest degree possible, freeing up people to work on more worthwhile things. And as automation gets better and better, even medium-skill and eventually high-skill jobs should also be automated.

In my version of utopia, people won't even have to work if they don't want to, but, due the to abundance afforded by all this automation, will still be able to live a very comfortable life. I suspect humanity will destroy itself before we get there, though.

(Of course, that utopia will be fragile if enough people don't know how to maintain the automation.)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#597

Post by mnky9800n »

jacktribe wrote: post #565
mnky9800n wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The review feedback program sounds like over engineered nonsense. You get metrics which you think represents customer experience which you can use to evaluate and motivate your employees to act a certain in this coffee fueled skinner box designed to train baristas. But the data won't represent that, the interaction with a barista is only a small fraction of what makes a coffee shop good (first should be good coffee,…

While profit sharing may work as an incentive for shift managers or store managers, in the absence of tips most baristas will expect some other immediate bonus pay, preferably based on a measurable metric that doesn't depend on factors beyond the barista's control, such as cost of goods sold, supply chain constraints, rent hikes, recessions, etc. If you occasionally ask the customer in-app "how was your service today…

I don't feel like you responded to my comment. If you are paying a reasonable wage, profit sharing is a bonus. You are creating tipping with extra steps.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#598

Post by nicbou »

parallel wrote: post #405
barbariangrunge wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you would take cash. Every other method of payment gets tracked and is used to profile people

Is this where cryptocurrencies come in? The convenience of a cashless transaction without the tracking.

Cryptocurrency exposed thousands of pedophiles a few years ago. It stores a record of every transaction. They just had to connect the dots starting from the wallet of the CSAM website.

Blockchain sleuthing had become much more commonplace since then.

If you have a public ledger, you don't need names to identify people's wallets.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#599

Post by jacktribe »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #271
jacktribe wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are included. We might do the QR for customers that did not order using the app on their phone. We're printing stickers anyway, using the Star Micronics SDK which makes QR code printing a breeze.

Gotta say, love seeing the 'hack on my own rig' mentality applied to coffee shops. Curious to know how your culture views to-go orders? Based on the YouTube short (place looks awesome btw), I don't think the vibe is grab and go - but if it is, how are you handling the tickets? Just a separate Star for the togos? Nice getting that working, too - I'm stuck in a regional rep loop trying to get access to ours.

Roughly half of the customers do head out as soon as the order is ready, especially in the morning.

We print stickers regardless of to-stay or to-go because it helps us keep track of fulfilled items, and you can easily pass a sticker to a colleague if you need help with an order.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#600

Post by jacktribe »

sunsetMurk wrote: post #207
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

where's the coffee shop?

Awakening Coffee in Inglewood
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