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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#591

Post by DangitBobby »

hnlmorg wrote: post #149
Cederfjard wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it stop, as long as nations continue to pose threats to each other and their populations? I support both the US and the EU putting these restrictions in place (until such a time when everyone can be trusted, if ever).

Because it's a cyclic argument that only leads to hostilities. Of course I'm not advocating that if we stop collecting data everyone will suddenly play nice. But that doesn't mean it isn't extraordinarily hypocritical to moan about China and the EU placing restrictions on US companies (as is a frequent gripe on HN) while simultaneously placing restrictions on China and EU firms too. We need to learn to find a saner m…

I see very few (zero?) people groaning about data restrictions set by the EU.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#592

Post by jkaplowitz »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #579
Ajedi32 wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China did ban Facebook, as did Russia and North Korea. Countries where Facebook is not banned are largely allies of the US.

Don't forget that The EU is currently considering banning Facebook if changes to privacy and data security aren't made. https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/ban-on-facebo... https://news.yahoo.com/facebook-instagram-face-europe-ban-16...

The EU authorities themselves are not banning Facebook, per se, despite the headlines - the threat to remove Facebook from the European market comes from Facebook/Meta, because they don't want to comply with the expected upcoming order preventing them from transferring EU data subject data to the US. The thing that the EU officials are preparing could be described as a ban on data transfer, although it's really an order to comply more correctly with an existing law (the GDPR) rather than a new obligation. But it's not a ban on operating in the EU.

If Facebook kept EU data subject data in the EU, or even if they use Standard Contractual Clauses to transfer it to different third countries without the same kind of problematic surveillance laws that the US has, there would be no issue.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#593

Post by dubswithus »

DocTomoe wrote: post #99
dubswithus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t just going to surveil you though. They will actively work to promote disinformation to you.

The more I read about the dangers of disinformation, the more I get the idea that 'disinformation' just means 'information my current government does not agree with'.

The US government does not agree with China that the US army created SARS-CoV-2 in a lab. But every scientist and rational person also doesn't agree with China. You're going to have to update your definition.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/vaccines-c...

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#594

Post by fsflover »

Grimburger wrote: post #291
roberttod wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military personnel is not what this is about, it's about the data of all the citizens in the US. It's about manipulating public opinion, sowing divide or a thousand other options.

> It's about manipulating public opinion Do you think Facebook, Twitter and Reddit should be able to do that?

So if they do, it's fine to add another entity to the list?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#595

Post by encryptluks2 »

elliekelly wrote: post #561
unityByFreedom wrote: post #78

Not the FCC, this is one FCC commissioner's statement. He's not the chair, nor is he part of the majority party, so you can probably read this as a political statement. Republicans had a chance to ban TikTok during the last administration. They did not do it.

It annoys me that these headlines keep falsely attributing his statements to the FCC as a whole. I hate TikTok and I tend to agree that it’s a security risk (so, too, is Facebook, IMO). But this guy has it out for TikTok solely for political reasons and in order to please Trump.

To be fair, and I'm not fan of Trump, but if Trump hypothetically supported something good... like let's say universal healthcare, a lot of Democrats would oppose it just because Trump supported it.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#596

Post by retzkek »

kergonath wrote: post #390
atwood22 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is largely zero-sum.

It is not. When I go shopping I give them a bill and I get something to eat. Both parties are better off after that transaction. Similarly, if I am good at making stuff but terrible at growing stuff, by being in a community I can survive despite an utter lack of agricultural abilities and produce stuff that the farmers would not know how to make. Again, not zero sum. You could argue that this is civilisation and unna…

> Both parties are better off after that transaction.

What about the externalities of that transaction?

* If meat, what was killed to produce it? If veg, what was removed from the ground (and how will it be replaced)?

* Who was exploited in the production?

* What damage did you cause while traveling to the store?

* What damage was done while getting the goods/supplies to the store?

* What infrastructure was required to facilitate the transaction? What damage and opportunity costs did that inflict?

The economist would hand-wave all that away as being priced in by the "efficient" economy. Yet even the tiniest inefficiency (say, un/under-accounted damage to the environment caused by burning petroleum to power the vehicles involved) compounds over billions of such transactions every day over decades into massive debts that humanity must ultimately account for.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#597

Post by asah »

aaomidi wrote: post #531
sudosysgen wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has no rule of law for national security consideration in other countries. As a non US citizen the US government in practice has no due process consideration if they wish to spy on you, torture you, or kill you. Corporations are an extension of the state in this process, as we have learned thanks to Edward Snowden. They have no choice but to facilitate the use of state power on foreign nationals. As a non-Amer…

+1 to all of this. US has no standing with the people of a lot of the world.

While perhaps true, it's irrelevant to THIS conversation - THIS conversation is about a Chinese company operating IN THE US. There does not need to be parity.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#598

Post by seventytwo »

snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

You’re trying to apply kindergarten-level ideas of fairness to a technological Cold War. In theory, you’re right - it would be great if everyone could just get along and be nice! But, well…

It’s similar to the paradox of intolerance… the paradox of force. Should we live by the rules of fairness while others don’t? Should we expose ourselves to the same risks that others expose themselves just out of fairness?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#599

Post by seventytwo »

tablespoon wrote: post #474
snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

> The problem should be that the data is collected and provided to the government whenever they want - not that it's not the Chinese government. We had this discussion after the Snowden leaks and nothing changed whatsoever. Back then it was the US government and the US gov had the chance to change the rules so this could not happen. Now they're up in arms because other governments do the exact same thing. It's really…

> It's like the difference between sharing your bank password with your wife vs. some dude you aren't very friendly with who has a history of wire fraud. "Treat everyone the same" is not a workable policy.

This is exactly right.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#600

Post by twirlock »

tablespoon wrote: post #474
snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

> The problem should be that the data is collected and provided to the government whenever they want - not that it's not the Chinese government. We had this discussion after the Snowden leaks and nothing changed whatsoever. Back then it was the US government and the US gov had the chance to change the rules so this could not happen. Now they're up in arms because other governments do the exact same thing. It's really…

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