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Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

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Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK is sick and tired of this and has recently begun moving to ignore these onerous rules. All power to them. I don't think so; the UK passed the Data Protection Act 2018 just 4 years ago, to bring GDPR into UK law. That is: the DPA is normal statute legislation, unlike the GDPR itself, which is a bureaucrat-made regulation. The DPA was passed by both houses of Parliament. So what are these mysterious moves to i…

Are you. . . For real in this thread? Can you please stop commenting about things you seem to have zero context in and zero interest in following even casually? https://www.itpro.co.uk/policy-legislation/data-protection/3...

Instead of resorting to abuse and name-calling, let's hear your proposal for the kind of data-protection legislation you favour. Surely you're not advocating the ideas of the terminally-dim Nadine Dorries?

The simple fact is that if you allow unrestricted export of personal data from Europe to the USA, then European law can no longer control what use is made of that data, because the US courts won't enforce European restrictions. Are you advocating for Europeans to submit to the wild-west regime in the USA?

By the way, if you don't care to read my posts, you can always just not read them; they are all tagged with my handle at the top.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't expect a piece of the bureaucratic establishment such as yourself Good Lord, presumptions much? I said I was DPO in my last job. I was also the main sysadmin, and as my main role a website developer. This was a company of 10 people including the bosses. Someone had to take on the role. > It must take a special kind of asshole to say this. It must take a special kind of asshole to say that, to someone you…

The fact that you still can’t bring yourself to admit here what you did in another comment says more than I ever could. ie, that any small or big business inadvertently sending even an IP address that isn’t even stored to touch a US based resource in something as innocuous as AWS. Seeing your other recent comment here, it seems you’re just a moron with a nationalistic tendency to support your countrymen (and women).…

If it's inadvertent, then they can remedy the error once they've been notified.

If an IP address is sent to the USA, then whether it's stored or not ceases to be a matter that European courts can oversee. Since US courts and European courts are not in accord on these matters, Europeans are faced with either banning the export of IP addresses to the USA, or giving up on legislating privacy at all. We chose the former.

> it seems you’re just a moron with a nationalistic tendency

Oh, more name-calling, and more conclusions jumped to. If you can't make an argument, make a personal insult, and decorate it with insulting epithets based on nothing at all.

> future generations on your continent suffer

Ah, you're not from these parts! I thought not. But in the light of that fact, it's our concern, not yours, right? So why do you get SO angry about European law? If you want to trade in Europe, you have to comply with European regulations. Same wherever you want to trade.

I don't approve of the US trade environment. For example, about half the world is under US trade sanctions; but you don't get me marching around accusing USAians of being morons, weazels, assholes, and clowns.

Perhaps the truth is that it is you that is the nationalist?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#593
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lol. Thank you for agreeing. You're completely wrong about the fines part, it is discretionary. ie, if tomorrow, there is a negative press cycle, you will certainly be hit with any punishment of their choosing. Not any punishment of their choosing, but according to Art. 83, that defines the maximum fine and the criteria to determine it. This is not different from what the FDA or the SEC do in the USA. Or do you thi…

If you’re illiterate or deliberately avoiding the issues I’ve highlighted, then all the best to you and your kind. We’ve established that there is presently different outcomes for the same actions under European law. Ie, if you send IP addresses today to AWS, you could be deemed to be doing something illegal overnight subject to 4% of global revenue or 20 million euro fines. This isn’t about cents or decimals, jackas…

> Monarchy.

You don't seem to know what a monarch is. You're ranting about a French regulator; you don't seem to be aware that the French got rid of their monarchy before the American colonies did.

> if you clowns think discourse that defends assholery from the bureaucracy wins you any favors or makes Europeans lives any better, you more stupid than I’m giving you credit for here.

The value of your "credit" diminishes with each post you make. Apparently your view is that "Anyone with half a brain will be aghast at what is happening is the EU"; well, either Europeans are, in fact, aghast, or you're really referring to your own "countrymen", which I suspect is a rather small clique of USAian tech bros.

Have a chill-pill, dude. GDPR is European law, for Europeans. You don't have to come to Europe, and you don't have to trade here. If you stick to jurisdictions that don't, in your view, involve assholery, then everything's copacetic for everyone, right?

I have a strong sense that you want to trade in Europe, without having to comply with European law. That's not going to work.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#594
post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ie, if you send IP addresses today to AWS, you could be deemed to be doing something illegal overnight subject to 4% of global revenue or 20 million euro fines. If you are breaking the law, if a regulator finds out, you may be deemed to be doing something illegal overnight. Yes, that’s how everything works everywhere. What is worrying you now? The sound of a GDPR breach in a forest where nobody can hear it? > Under…

Either you don’t understand technology or you’re a dunce. You’ve made a strong case for both in this thread. By admitting data flows to us resources are illegal, you’ve just said that what you’re doing right now can be construed as illegal activity on the part of the website you’re on. HN is indeed hosted on us resources. You touch Microsoft excel and guess what? Us resources get your personal data. So you’ve just ba…

"Dunce", "dumbass". You lost this argument a long time ago - hurling insults and epithets tends to have that effect. But I'm sure you'll press on, and invoke Hitler soon.

> guess what? Us resources get your personal data.

From posting to HN? AFAIAA, HN only gets your IP address. GA gets your search history, which is a bit different.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#595
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lol. Thank you for agreeing. You're completely wrong about the fines part, it is discretionary. ie, if tomorrow, there is a negative press cycle, you will certainly be hit with any punishment of their choosing. Not any punishment of their choosing, but according to Art. 83, that defines the maximum fine and the criteria to determine it. This is not different from what the FDA or the SEC do in the USA. Or do you thi…

If you’re illiterate or deliberately avoiding the issues I’ve highlighted, then all the best to you and your kind. We’ve established that there is presently different outcomes for the same actions under European law. Ie, if you send IP addresses today to AWS, you could be deemed to be doing something illegal overnight subject to 4% of global revenue or 20 million euro fines. This isn’t about cents or decimals, jackas…

> If you’re illiterate or deliberately avoiding the issues I’ve highlighted, then all the best to you and your kind.

Perhaps if you were to actually highlight the issues you claim to have highlighted, it might be easier for us and our "kind" (I don't know what "kind" I belong to). You rant about the European "monarchy", and the deficiencies of European bureaucracy; what about explaining your proposals for a reformed GDPR?

But I think you are opposed to any kind of privacy legislation. GDPR steams you up because it is privacy legislation that works. Well, that's fine; there are laws that USAians make that I'm opposed to. I'm not on-board with US lawmaking and judicial processes. That's fine too; I don't have to live or trade in the USA (and I did make a choice; I once lived in the USA).

I suspect that something about the GDPR must have bitten you quite badly - would you consider sharing what it was? It would be helpful if you avoided the "asshole", "weasel", "moron", "dumbass", "illiterate" language, and focused on what happened, and what the impact was.

NOTE: there are people here that don't seem to be good at spelling, but I don't think I've ever come across a post here that I would describe as "illiterate".

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#596

Italy is the 4th in a string of recent decisions across the EU. (We're tracking these cases on isgoogleanalyticsillegal.com along with details for each.) Note that it's not illegal to use GA entirely, just illegal to use in its default state which transmits PII to the US.

Forget anonimized GA, I wonder what regulators would say to the likes of Hotjar which even records your screen and can be played back.

They aren't Google, so the anti-"American Big Tech" energy isn't as strong.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#597
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

take data of your USA customers and sell it to the highest bidder without their consent or even knowledge as you please. don't complain that I have the right to know you do that and disagree to you doing that.

Google doesn't really sell user data.

That seems to be a detail that a lot of people miss. Google, Facebook, etc. don't sell user data. What they do offer is services where they use that data to optimize ad delivery.

On my part, I'm not too concerned with that... they operate on a massive scale and no human is looking at my individual data. The result is me seeing fewer ads that are irrelevant, which is good for everyone (for example, no one benefits from showing me an ad for feminine hygiene products, and if Google and Facebook can make sure that doesn't happen, all the better).

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you still can’t bring yourself to admit here what you did in another comment says more than I ever could. ie, that any small or big business inadvertently sending even an IP address that isn’t even stored to touch a US based resource in something as innocuous as AWS. Seeing your other recent comment here, it seems you’re just a moron with a nationalistic tendency to support your countrymen (and women).…

If it's inadvertent, then they can remedy the error once they've been notified. If an IP address is sent to the USA, then whether it's stored or not ceases to be a matter that European courts can oversee. Since US courts and European courts are not in accord on these matters, Europeans are faced with either banning the export of IP addresses to the USA, or giving up on legislating privacy at all. We chose the former.…

"remedy the error"? Care to put that in a sentence like "Remedy the error of using the internet"

You expect a business that's invested in the AWS stack to up and move overnight because some illiterate morons in Brussels decided that?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you don’t understand technology or you’re a dunce. You’ve made a strong case for both in this thread. By admitting data flows to us resources are illegal, you’ve just said that what you’re doing right now can be construed as illegal activity on the part of the website you’re on. HN is indeed hosted on us resources. You touch Microsoft excel and guess what? Us resources get your personal data. So you’ve just ba…

"Dunce", "dumbass". You lost this argument a long time ago - hurling insults and epithets tends to have that effect. But I'm sure you'll press on, and invoke Hitler soon. > guess what? Us resources get your personal data. From posting to HN? AFAIAA, HN only gets your IP address. GA gets your search history, which is a bit different.

Lol, the person above you admitted that IP addresses are enough to put you in violation.

It doesn't matter post that statement what your conclusions are. You have opened up every business to a liability of 4% global earnings or 20 million Euros WHICHEVER IS GREATER. . .at the sheer discretion of some illiterate fucks like yourself in Brussels.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re illiterate or deliberately avoiding the issues I’ve highlighted, then all the best to you and your kind. We’ve established that there is presently different outcomes for the same actions under European law. Ie, if you send IP addresses today to AWS, you could be deemed to be doing something illegal overnight subject to 4% of global revenue or 20 million euro fines. This isn’t about cents or decimals, jackas…

> If you’re illiterate or deliberately avoiding the issues I’ve highlighted, then all the best to you and your kind. Perhaps if you were to actually highlight the issues you claim to have highlighted, it might be easier for us and our "kind" (I don't know what "kind" I belong to). You rant about the European "monarchy", and the deficiencies of European bureaucracy; what about explaining your proposals for a reformed…

I seem to have touched a nerve lol. Here's my reform proposal for the GDPR:

1. Toss it out. All of it. In the present form, it is worthless. 2. Make privacy regulation simpler, not ten million pages and bureaucrats who are RIGHT NOW, abusing the power that all Europeans have entrusted them with. 3. Enable independent oversight. Consultations with technical committees of technology companies, Judicial reform to ensure there is no legislating from the bench, independent whistleblower handling to investigate abuses of power such as the CNIL case. 4. Separate the legislative, executive and punitive functions with very tight rules. We have assholes in Brussels so married to the idea that all tech is bad that they rebelled against the moves by the European Parliament to codify data transfer laws between the EU and US during Bidens visit. I mean, there is a limit to short sighted thinking. 5. Stop the political uncertainty with the multiple changes and the sheer amount of idiotic bureaucracy with multiple conflicting regulations where EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING is a crime and instead, pick the most pressing issues: Cybersecurity, Data Handling, Data Sharing etc. It's ridiculous that we have 10,000 people obsessing over cookie banners while malicious hackers pilfer 100s of millions of peoples data because of a lack of political will to focus on cybersecurity.

On privacy legislation, my biggest gripe with the GDPR is it HAS DONE FUCK ALL for privacy. Apple has done more with the changes to iOS than the entire fucking EU with GDPR.

I am advocating for MORE effective legislation, not more INEFFECTIVE, burdensome, regressive regulation that enshrines the concentration of powers and makes innovation impossible.

1. Enlarge the definition of privacy legislation to cover EVERYTHING! Do you realize that EUROPEAN Intel agencies are not covered by the GDPR right now? While American Intel agencies are and Chinese Intel agencies are not even mentioned or challenged? How is that good for privacy when Huawei is essentially taking much of European market share while being run by a Govt enslaving a million Muslims in Xinjiang? 2. Make it less reliant on pure punitive measures and more an incentive+punitive set of objective measures to give companies the opportunity to innovate towards solutions. Right now, the stance by Europe has made only investing in lawyers the most appropriate choice. That or leave. No middle ground, no consultations, simply make villains of tech companies and that is the legacy of many regulators there. 3. Term limits on regulators. Limits and regulation on the people enforcing privacy legislation to ensure a balanced mind. Right now, go on Twitter and see the deranged rants of many of the people in these agencies who delight at the market share loss of Facebook or openly express glee whenever there is a bad press cycle outside of privacy for any of the companies they're supposed to be entrusted with passing judgements on. This is not a democracy. It's shameful. 4. Incentives that MINIMIZE liability for companies that meet objective standards that are reasonable. Right now, the approach is to hit them with the biggest stick you can find and hope and pray that it works out.

Many more, but along the same lines.

>I suspect that something about the GDPR must have bitten you quite badly

I've seen people simply struggle to achieve success that other parts of the world take for granted. This is TODAY . . in EUROPE of all places. You need to realize that bad political decisions are bad for everyone. I don't have skin in the game other than the feeling of watching someone drive off a cliff. So many people i speak to/interview/engage with from Europe who are young as SO very bright and talented and it's amazing to see how the very people they elected piss away time, resources and money on depleting the economy that these kids are going to grow up into for personal vendetta.

No one in their right mind will argue that the GDPR does a great job. It is very flawed legislation that will set the privacy movement back decades.

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