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What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

latimes.com

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Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#591

Post by davidgould »

petre wrote: post #519
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #275

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

They're negating most of Asian cooking by taking away gas. This is stupid and overdoing it imho. It should be done with an adjustment period over 5 years or more. I'm all electric at home but using a wok on an induction stove is a pita and doesn't even resemble a wok. I have friends who cook as a hobby and swear by gas. Korean BBQ could be probably done on electric as well. Takes more time though. If I'd open a KBBQ…

Most gas stove tops in the US are not great for cooking with a wok anyway as they are underpowered and the flame comes out the edges of the "sealed burner".

I use an Iwatani 35FW tabletop butane burner for wok cooking which works much better than my gas stove. It claims 15,000 Btu vs my stoves 7,000. I suspect both claims are inflated, but the Iwatani will boil a pint of water in 1/4th the time of the stove. The wok is acceptably stable on it and the flame pattern is usable if not ideal. The butane cans are well under $2 and will make several meals per can. It's a bit pricey ($100-ish now) but mine has lasted six years of frequent use.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#592

Post by b112 »

dhzhzjsbevs wrote: post #588
wheels wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a stupid trend in electric cooktop design, not something specific to induction. I've got an SMEG induction combo oven/stove and it has real knobs – out front, where they belong. They also make induction cooktops with real knobs.

Know what brand? I'm planning a remodel and I fucking hate this "smart" trend in my home appliances. Luckily at least the dumb stuff is cheaper. Already found a knobby oven but all the induction tops are damned touch screens.

I was curious, so looked at Home Depot in Canada.

I see Samsung and LG with induction oven models, that now have dials for the "burners".

When I bought my range, maybe 5 years ago, I don't think these models existed.

So, perhaps the trend is reversing?

The oven itself seems digital in all cases, but that's fine. I don't mind setting it to 400F by entering the numbers, because that stays static for most of the cooking process.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#593

Post by Maursault »

wolverine876 wrote: post #507
Maursault wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the homework, but no thanks. You do it. Off the top of my head, consumer vehicles globally contribute 5-6% of Climate Change-causing emissions. If you'd care to look, you'll see this pales in comparison to the major contributors, electricity generation, agriculture, deforestation, oil drilling, etc. If we could overnight stop the major contributors, such as industrial processes, your ice car just wouldn't…

If you make the claims, the homework is yours. Otherwise, the claims could say anything.

I suppose you have data on that.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#594

Post by tlb »

wolverine876 wrote: post #225
Maursault wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a foolish law, environmentally speaking. I concur. This is the same thing as blaming Climate Change on road vehicles when most of Climate Change is caused by energy, shipping, construction, concrete manufacture, glass making, etc. Mostly, Climate Change isn't caused by the People. It's business and industry causing it. IOW, greed causes Global Warming. So they're focusing on a space that has negligible…

> This is the same thing as blaming Climate Change on road vehicles when most of Climate Change is caused by energy, shipping, construction, concrete manufacture, glass making, etc. Do you have data on how much each of those sectors contributes? IIRC, road transportation contributes a relatively large amount.

Road transportation is 15% of total CO2 emissions. See https://ourworldindata.org/transport#co2-emissions-by-mode-o...

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#595

Post by zcw100 »

truffdog wrote: post #577
zcw100 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m getting tired of people citing the efficiency of electric vs gas without including the any of the electric production and distribution. Sure at the point of use electric is more efficient but what do you think they make that electricity with? Most likely it’s coal, after that it’s natural gas. The best argument in favor isn’t dubious claims to efficiency or even indoor combustion but that it’s fungible. Once you…

In California it's mostly renewable with a small amount of natural gas and nuclear. Occasionally over 90% renewable depending on the time of year.

I don’t know where you got your data but mine would say otherwise

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo...

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#596

Post by perryizgr8 »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #275

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

> gas should provide no cost benefit

If that were true, there would be no need to ban gas stoves. So we can conclude that electric cooking is more expensive than gas.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#597

Post by dekhn »

cmclaughlin wrote: post #501
dekhn wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only had one experience with induction- probably 15 years ago now. It was a place we stayed in hawaii (like pre-airbnb) and there was a sign saying if you even looked at it wrong it would scratch the surface (necessitating a full replacement). Are they really strong now or do you still have to worry about scratching? Some googling suggests that you still need to be careful with cast iron.

Cracking the glass of a induction cooktop is still a problem. So I recommend carbon steel over cast iron for this purpose. They’re similar in that they both need to be seasoned. But carbon steel is much lighter and it’s smooth unlike most modern cast iron cookware.

Well, I'm attached to my cast iron (pan, griddle, casserole and more), and treating my cooking top roughly (I used to be a cook in a restaurant, there we used carbon steel, which is fine, but sort of a different beast, from cast iron) is just how I roll. So I guess induction is still off the table. Even resistive electric coils don't really handle things quite as well as a gas range with metal grates.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#598

Post by wolverine876 »

seibelj wrote: post #576
wolverine876 wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say that, but Reason is still not generally seen as credible. If we ignore credibility, we can say and on the Interet we can find support for anything.

Who says it’s not credible? Why is it any less credible than NYT or WSJ, which each has its own ideological slant?

Good question. What makes sources credible?

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#599

Post by wolverine876 »

elil17 wrote: post #587
wolverine876 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you stop just the appliances you’ll just end up burning more in a power plant That power plant doesn't have to use natural gas.

Right but they do at the moment

Not all power plants do, and we can change those too, and if we want to ween ourselves off natural gas then we need to do the consumer end too.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#600

Post by wolverine876 »

Kirby64 wrote: post #230
wolverine876 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what affected your air quality more? I could see it either way.

Inherently gas furnaces pipe their fumes out outside, so air quality should be better for the furnace than the gas stove, even though the furnace uses way more gas. Exterior though, obviously the furnace is worse since its all going outside.

Good points. I wonder how the leakage from the relatively large amount of furnace gas compares to the leakage from the relatively small amount of stove gas. For example, if the furnace uses 10x cubic feet of gas and leaks 50% less per cubic foot than the stove, the furnace will leak 5x more cubic feet than the stove. (Completely made up numbers.)

Then the next question is, how does the furnace leak in the basement affect the air quality where people typically breathe?

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