Everything with a battery should have an off switch • Hacker News Board

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#591

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

folmar wrote: post #501

caf wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "the operating noise" is the cooling fan for the magnetron, it keeps going when the time is up to cool it down. Mine does the same, but actually says "COOL" on the screen when it does so.

My old microwave oven has a fan that is on only when the microwaves are on. If that was possible in 1985 it can be made the same way now.

It's more reliable if you connect the cooling fan to a thermostat rather than the power switch. Otherwise the hottest time is actually after you turn it off (as heat from the inside leaks to the outside but is no longer being cooled by the fan.)

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#592

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:25 PM UTC

throw10920 wrote: post #322

alistairSH wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the example you gave, as a user, what would you do with "Error: 0xFHJAD1234"? The best you could do is report it to Apple (or whoever). But, the error alone doesn't achieve anything. You would have been better off with "Something broke, click here to send log to Apple." (which is roughly what the book recommends - replace the error with something actionable).

No, the best that you can do is paste it into Google . Giving a user an error ID gives them a partially-if-not-completely unique identifier that they can then use to find other people struggling with the same error and possible solutions. This is infinitely better than having no error message and having to try to type different permutations of your symptoms into Google in order to try to win search engine bingo. Sure…

And if it's a program display it in some fashion where it can be selected so you can ^c^v it rather than have to retype it. Such errors are all too often displayed on non-selectable labels.

Bonus points to the mythical developer that includes a google-this button on the error display.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#593

Post by jrockway » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:28 PM UTC

rypskar wrote: post #468

jrockway wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, reputable digital calipers are fine for thousandths of an inch. A micrometer is good for further precision and when you what more consistent measurements of softer materials. For example, if I measure my set of - gage pins, the caliper agrees exactly with the spec (a .210 pin reads 0.2095), and it's pretty hard to torque down too tightly on hardened steel. But if they were nylon and not steel, you'd probably get…

ah, thousands of an inch, I'm not American and was thinking thousands of a mm

Yup. These calipers that measure to .0005 of an inch only show hundredths of a mm (10 microns).

As for language, "thou", short for thousandths of an inch, is kind of the base unit in imperial machining. That's why the next one down is "tenth" in the vernacular. It's very confusing because 100 thou is one tenth of an inch, but you'd never call it a "tenth" even if "inch" is implicitly the base unit. Also confusing is that there are SI prefixes for all of these things, but they aren't in use. (Why not "milliinch"?)

Finally, one more advantage of the metric system; to measure 1 micrometer, you need a tool called a micrometer. That's easy to remember!

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#594

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #459

kyaghmour wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a godawful book. In my view it epitomizes everything that is wrong with design today. And the worst part is that comments like these make it come off as the go-to reference to actually solving these problems. The reasons it's the worst design guidance out there is that it teaches: 1) that engineers should NOT be entrusted/involved with user design. 2) to conceptualize users as blissful idiots. 3) that obs…

There's an endless debate in programming languages about how to handle errors in software. Error codes, exceptions, optional types, NaNs. One solution I try is to redesign the cause of the error out of the system. For example, compilers often have maximum quantities of language constructs that are supported, like the maximum length of a string literal. Then, when the length is exceeded, an error message is concocted…

Yup, these days any serious use you can afford to throw memory at the problem. So many things become so much easier when the limits are pushed back to out of memory or integer overflow territory.

30 years ago I had to live with problematic memory limits and made some design decisions that over time I would come to hate because I had to shoehorn data into EMS memory banks. Data objects ended up sliced and diced into separate arrays, never did they point to the relevant things because such pointers would always have been into a different bank and the only possible allocation was the whole bank.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#595

Post by Kirby64 » Tue, May 10, 2022, 8:18 PM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #586

fennecfoxy wrote: post #570

>Buys lowest common denominator/cheapest product >"oh no this product is really bad and the features don't make sense" Alright buddy. There are plenty of devices I have without an off switch that work perfectly fine. In terms of controllers, the Xbox controllers I have will go to sleep after not having been used for a little while and conserve battery that way. The problem isn't lack of off switches, it's the lack of…

If it's got a processor someday that processor will need to be rebooted. Provide me some means of doing so!

Not necessarily true. Embedded software with extremely well defined process loops should never need rebooting. In practice there can be bugs, but this is not a given. There's probably substantially more embedded software than you're aware that never needs or gets rebooted.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#596

Post by milesvp » Tue, May 10, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

progbits wrote: post #119

narag wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this ultracheap made-in-China big kitchen clock, with a single AA that I've replaced twice in eight years. I don't buy expensive batteries, more like in line with the clock. It has second hand (the kind that doesn't tick but appears to move uniformly) so there is some extra mechanical work.

I think the quality is hit and miss, even with premium batteries. I had enough devices damaged or entirely ruined by a leaked battery so now I remove them from anything not actively used. If anyone knows a reliable model for AA/AAA cells that will absolutely not leak when left unused in a device for year+ I would love to hear it.

Big Clive suggests using nimh batteries for expensive electronics since they won’t leak. Also they are much better than they used to be, and there are many slow self-discharge brands that you can actually buy pre charged.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#597

Post by baybal2 » Tue, May 10, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

exmadscientist wrote: post #577

baybal2 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell whether you work in a product design company, or an engineering company? Does that come from clients? I used the same 3-in-1 latch circuit for power on/off, pairing, and software power off for 12 years. A good enhancement mode NMOS FET can be as good as a physical switch at low voltages. If you really need nano-amp level leakage current AND very low drop, you can consider turning to beefy depletion mode…

> Can you tell whether you work in a product design company, or an engineering company? Both! There aren't many of those out there, so I probably just outed myself. Oh well. Keep it quiet please? > A good enhancement mode NMOS FET can be as good as a physical switch at low voltages. Yes, it can work very well. You are correct that it need not be a physical switch. But it still does nothing if it is never brought out…

No post body was provided.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#598

Post by johnsonap » Tue, May 10, 2022, 10:32 PM UTC

prannies wrote: post #564

johnsonap wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just something I care a lot about.

It is disruptive to have pronoun activists such as yourself wandering in and derailing the conversation. Please find a more useful hobby than this worthless language policing.

What's more disrupting, my one little comment, or you bickering with me about it? it's not language policing, it's treating folks with respect. Also, glad you created your account just to say this.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#599

Post by roryokane » Wed, May 11, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

myroon5 wrote: post #573

npteljes wrote: post #226

My most ridiculous experience was when an MP3 player froze back in the day. We had no way to switch off, or pull the battery out, so we waited 2 weeks, until the battery was dead. Then it worked fine after a recharge.

Accidentally fork bombed a MacBook and had to wait for it to die as well. Had to put it in the fridge for a bit of that time due to overheating as well

Every Mac laptop I’ve used in the last 15 years has supported forcing a shutdown by holding down the power button for a few seconds. If the model is new enough that there’s no power button, you can hold down the Touch ID sensor instead.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#600

Post by rahimiali » Wed, May 11, 2022, 4:13 AM UTC

prannies wrote: post #564

johnsonap wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just something I care a lot about.

It is disruptive to have pronoun activists such as yourself wandering in and derailing the conversation. Please find a more useful hobby than this worthless language policing.

for what it's worth, i was grateful to be called out on my gender assumption. that assumption can cause widespread harm. i'm less concerned about my pronoun assumption.