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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#591

Post by Hnrobert42 »

jpgvm wrote: post #378
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe standardized tests are unbiased, huh?

It's literally in the name. All the bias happens well before the tests. Fix the bias at it's root, don't blame standardized testing regimes for exposing the inherent biases in the system.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/racis...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100730074308.h...

“ "The belief in the fairness of the tests and the accuracy of the gauges to check them has been so deeply engrained that to challenge them would be akin to questioning the sun as center of the solar system," said Aguinis, a nationally recognized expert who was also a co-author of an amicus brief in the landmark Ricci v. DeStefano Supreme Court case regarding employment testing.”

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#592

Post by raxxorrax »

pinephoneguy wrote: post #464
rayiner wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that most Americans of all races, including Black people, oppose the practice of race conscious admissions: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ... . People of all races also overwhelmingly oppose consideration of race in hiring: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/05/08/america... . In California, Prop 16 failed in every single majority Hispanic county. It’s a minority of most…

> It’s a minority of mostly white progressives pushing this stuff. I think if you look a little closer you'll find that many members of that "white" minority are in fact not White (or Hispanic, Black, or Asian.)

Really? Because I don't think so since I mostly see people with a falsely treated savior complex. Harsh judgement, but they also justify racism and if it comes down to it we need to be honest.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#593

Post by brippalcharrid »

tootie wrote: post #566
brippalcharrid wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about policies that favor some groups against others in a competition for scarce resources (college places, scholarships), so it clearly is going to have a negative effect on the people that are not in the favored groups. And even if the policies weren't so openly discriminatory (eg. SAT scores, quotas), the disparate impact on Asian-Americans would still be obvious.

"scarce resources" I wish the effort was put into making them less scarce. It's one of the very specific illnesses of American economic culture that we are willing to bite and claw each other over access to things that need not be rare.

There's no shortage of great community colleges, though; the problem is that elite institutions in particular are being made artificially scarce for certain groups of people (Asian-Americans in this case) by government fiat, as well as the fact that prestigious institutions are valued because of their scarcity and exclusivity. If they managed to increase their admissions by a factor of ten, then the value of their degrees in the eyes of society would decrease because amongst other things this would mean that they would have to be less selective about who they accepted.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#594

Post by Lascaille »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #539
jpgvm wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? If you think standardized testing is benefiting white/rich Australians you are horrendously mistaken. Asian Australians disproportionally destroy the affluent white Australian population on standardized tests as they fucking should because they prepare more and work harder. As a result they have priority access to medicine and law degrees, again, as they fucking should. If someone is going to work harder for so…

Just because Asian Australians do better on standardized testing does not mean white/rich Australians do not benefit more from it. The population size of each percentile and distribution across percentiles also matter. White identifying students can represent a larger distribution in the top percentile ranges overall [1]. > as they fucking should because they prepare more and work harder. Working harder does not incr…

>If someone is going to work harder for something they simply deserve it

What if they only know to work harder for something because of their privilege? Plenty of groups, due to lack of privilege, simply don't believe - because it hasn't applied to their cultures in the past - that hard work yields rewards.

Imagine a slave. What incentive does a slave have to work harder? Why would a person from a culture that's backgrounded in slavery believe in hard work?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#595

Post by jpgvm »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #591
jpgvm wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally in the name. All the bias happens well before the tests. Fix the bias at it's root, don't blame standardized testing regimes for exposing the inherent biases in the system.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/racis... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100730074308.h... “ "The belief in the fairness of the tests and the accuracy of the gauges to check them has been so deeply engrained that to challenge them would be akin to questioning the sun as center of the solar system," said Aguinis, a nationally recognized expert who was also a co-author of an amicus…

The amount of bollocks in those two links is hard to quantify.

People who's job it is to complain about how unfair the world is aren't fit to decide how we should measure the effectiveness of education and our students progress. Leave that to educators, just like we can leave the bitching to the "Antiracist Research & Policy Center".

The tests -will- show that disadvantaged children are behind, that is literally the point. Said test results don't mean said child is "lesser" simply that they aren't at the same level as peers that score higher. Fixing that is the job of the schools and the government (in so far as reducing the race/socioeconomic gap outside of the classroom), but they need the tests to understand which each child sits.

Hell if they -didn't- show that minorities are disadvantaged that would be a much more egregious problem and indicate the tests don't in fact test for what we think they do.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#596

Post by Wiseacre »

lazide wrote: post #446
Wiseacre wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is saying only one thing should be done? You can see free lunch programs and free daycare but you can also see that is not a panacea by itself.

Results and end capabilities matter. If there is a way to reliably produce better end results and capabilities, we should do them. If there is a way to better (as in more tied to reality) measure for better results and capabilities we should. I don’t see that being part of the discussion anymore though, and haven’t for awhile unfortunately. It used to be this discussion was about how to take better advantage society…

I'm not hearing any solutions.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#597

Post by dang »

pinephoneguy wrote: post #464
rayiner wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that most Americans of all races, including Black people, oppose the practice of race conscious admissions: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ... . People of all races also overwhelmingly oppose consideration of race in hiring: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/05/08/america... . In California, Prop 16 failed in every single majority Hispanic county. It’s a minority of most…

> It’s a minority of mostly white progressives pushing this stuff. I think if you look a little closer you'll find that many members of that "white" minority are in fact not White (or Hispanic, Black, or Asian.)

You can't do this here. I've banned the account.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#598

Post by SyzygistSix »

rayiner wrote: post #583
SyzygistSix wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it seem like the US no longer has an issue when there's an entire class of people who are not being educated, has high crime, and ending in mass incarceration. I can accept that some people have an issue with current liberal ideas because they think they don't work. If so, what is going to work? Or is the current state inevitable in order to have the high-functioning economy that the US has? Certainly more H…

> You make it seem like the US no longer has an issue when there's an entire class of people who are not being educated, has high crime, and ending in mass incarceration. It’s the fault of liberalism. It’s also the fault of conservatives pushing disadvantaged minorities into the arms of liberals (often against their own cultural inclinations) but the root cause is liberalism. History of course plays a role, but liber…

That's kind of what happens when you teach a group of people that hard work and honesty results in impoverished second class citizenship, generation after generation, until there are few successful role models in a community much less parents who can pass those values on to their kids.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#599

Post by [deleted] »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #551
jquery wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this post-racial idealism would land a lot better if we didn’t just get over 4 years of Trump, and if he wasn’t polling better than our current President. Given that, all these concerns about our precious post-racial paradise if it weren’t for those meddling progressives seems more than a little self-serving and disingenuous. I wonder how much confidence these keyboard warriors would have in person if they had to…

It sounds to me like you're still living in a world like the one right after the 2016 election where Democrats were all echo-chambering themselves that Trump is anti-Semitic. Party smears, versus reality.

[deleted]

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#600

Post by someguydave »

shard wrote: post #579
someguydave wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was an injection that made you less criminal, are you saying it should not be mandated? I fully agree.

Higher testosterone has been linked to more violent crimes. Would you propose that high testosterone individuals be mandated to receive shots to reduce testosterone?

probably not but there might be a therapy with similar effects and fewer side effects
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