EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones • Hacker News Board

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#591

Post by nicce » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #465

nicce wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Apple is moving a way from USB-C-only charger on the next gen laptops, because it does not provide enough power(to get even better charging speed). (Physical size limits that) So, maybe for phones it is enough in the future, but not for all devices.

That's bullshit. You can carry 240W over USB-C. Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.

> Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.

Exactly, you need to increase both for better charging speeds. 240W is not a lot for charging if the battery sizes keep growing. To add, increasing only voltage is not good for battery and gets challenging.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#592

Post by nybble41 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

selfhoster11 wrote: post #479

ravenstine wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on how far you want it to go. If electric sockets aren't standard then that creates bottlenecks in infrastructure interchangeability. To me, I don't see why government has any business in USB. Bluetooth maybe since it takes up the air. But USB? It's bad enough that wall sockets haven't improved. Will we be stuck with USB-C long after its natural EOL?

Legislation is not eternal. When USB-C outlives its usefulness, it can be legislated away in favour of a different standard. Or they could let a standards/industrial body make the binding decision.

> When USB-C outlives its usefulness, it can be legislated away in favour of a different standard.

When USB-C outlives its usefulness there won't be any ready-made standard for the legislation to switch to. Or at least if there is such a standard it won't come from the EU, or any other jurisdiction with similar regulations. Why would anyone develop a new standard for mobile devices when the law says they have to use USB-C? There are more profitable ways to spend the limited R&D budget than designing new ports which you might not ever be allowed to use.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#593

Post by elzbardico » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

xorcist wrote: post #93

sph wrote: post #4

Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere, it's Apple and their cable. Right now I always need with me a micro USB cable, an USB-C one, and Lightning, because Apple thinks different™. What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?

> I use the same USB plug everywhere, That's because of EU regulation. All the big manufacturers had their own connector before that, micro-USB started to look like a common connector among the low end manufacturers. This is the next step for that regulation and has been in the cards for some time.

No. Android phones made micro USB popular.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#594

Post by rblatz » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #267

sph wrote: post #4

Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere, it's Apple and their cable. Right now I always need with me a micro USB cable, an USB-C one, and Lightning, because Apple thinks different™. What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?

Simple. They changed from the 30 pin adaptor to Lightning 9 years ago. People complained to the high heavens about it. I recall Apple promising they would keep the new Lightning adaptor for at least 10 years. Guess what? When the new iPhones are released next year it will have been 10 years. The EU is probably aware of this situation and simply want to ensure Apple doesn't try to come up with some other solution. I d…

I came to the same conclusion. There is so much hand wringing on the internet about it, and most of these people don't remember the 30 pin to lightning transition. Specifically people don't remember what a huge upgrade lightning was over 30 pin or even the USB standard at the time.

The people also talk about huge profits apple is making on charging cables, which just doesn't make sense if you take even a cursory glance at the price of lightning cables on Amazon. I saw numerous multi packs of cables selling for ~$2.25 for a 6ft+ cables. Apple has already signaled the direction they are going with charging standards, and it's USB-C. They are just waiting for the supported lifetime of the lightning cable to be over.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#595

Post by moogly » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

IMO, that charger should be Qi. Ever since trying wireless charging on my Nexus 4 back in late 2012/early 2013 I just can't go back to sticking a cable into my smartphone just to charge it. Makes me feel dirty.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#596

Post by rglullis » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #568

rglullis wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU is all about fair markets. If you really believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. The EU, just like any political entity that has grown beyond the original intended responsibilities, has become the stage for cronies and the elites to play their power games. If the EU was really for "fair markets", Dieselgate alone would have been enough to wipe the German auto industry off the Earth. That is certainly somethin…

"If the EU was really for "fair markets", Dieselgate alone" Dieselgate has resulted in criminal prosecution, remind me how many people went to jaill after 2008? 2?

"Criminal prosecution for Dieselgate" was political theater of the worst kind. It's an example of systemic and institutional corruption and all that has brought was a couple of scapegoats. If the same thing were to happen in a smaller country, say Poland or Czech Republic, it would be grounds for the bigger EU states to bulldoze the plants and to bankrupt the nations.

Also, it's the second time that you try to counter an argument by throwing an American Whataboutism. Maybe you should let go of the nationalism and find better arguments?

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#597

Post by piaste » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

alserio wrote: post #263

brtkdotse wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> keep their phone slimmer than the competition in theory. This always struck me as a solution looking for a problem. Are modern phones really that chunky that we have to sacrifice functionality to shave a few fractions of a mm?

The real problem right now should be the weight, the trend is going in the wrong direction.

Just curious, for which use cases is weight a significant problem? Even the heaviest phones - rugged or foldables - seem to hover around 300g.

That shouldn't be at all tiring unless you are holding them for literal hours nonstop, or unless you're a small child - and in both scenarios it's good to be encouraged to put the phone down after a while.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#598

Post by elzbardico » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

InsomniacL wrote: post #145

iSnow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not great, but better than I personally expected: "Inductive charging is not as efficient as direct charging [...] An analysis of energy use found that charging a Pixel 4 from 0 to 100 percent on a classic cable used 14.26 Wh (watt-hours), while doing so with a wireless charger took 21.01 Wh, a 47 percent increase. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging Of course problems like heating up the battery and t…

"900 million active iphones in use" - CFO Luca Maestri 14.26 Wh * 900000000 * 365 (days) = 4684 GWh/yr 46% = 2154 GWh/yr wasted energy That's about the total energy output of Madagascar with a population of 27 million people. There's a lot of reasons why the above numbers are wrong but I just wanted to highlight that at current efficiency, there would be a lot of wasted energy. :)

not exactly a lot of energy in the big scheme of things

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#599

Post by intrasight » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

I expect that this is a battle that Apple will lose. But I don't think they really care that much - because there is neither business or technical justification for a custom connector. Now they can focus on highlighting why their AC converters are superior - which generally they are.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#600

Post by throwaddzuzxd » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

I honestly don't know. On one hand I'd love for a standard used by everyone, but on the other hand I fear it'll limit innovation. What if Apple want to sell a full wireless phone with MagSafe only for instance? What if someone invents something better than USB-C?

I'd like an alternative where manufacturers have to sell their products with USB-C, but they can sell the same product with something else if they want (eg. Apple would sell iPhone xx USB-C, iPhone xx Lightning, iPhone xx MagSafe... but they'd be forced to sell an USB-C variant)