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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#591

Post by nyokodo »

disease wrote: post #547
nyokodo wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it might not be the true one or the sufficient one. Unless you’re dealing with an extraordinary individual or the issue is relatively trivial then you won’t be told sufficient reasons. A lot of what motivates us is deep down and dumb and we rarely want to admit it even if we’re aware of it which is even rarer. I find that examining reasons to change my own mind is much more fruitful because it’s harder to lie to my…

A lot of it is simply narcissism. Many people who are deeply involved in conspiracy culture have professional, emotional, or social frustrations and are grasping for explanations about why they aren't getting the things that they want out of life.

> A lot of it is simply narcissism

Im sure it’s involved to some degree but I don’t think anyone has sufficient data to know by how much. It could be insinuated that the demonization of the unvaccinated and the call for the use of force against them is an expression of narcissism by the vaccinated who are frustrated that their “genius” is being ignored. Both accusations have equal plausibility and lack of data.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#592

Post by rajin444 »

tomp wrote: post #533
ipaddr wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are mostly worried about long term side effects. Including those who have the vaccine. Understanding that base fear will help bridge the divide between groups.

No, that's just a common excuse. People still smoke, eat McDonalds, rarely exercise, drive in cars, take drugs, have unprotected sex, drink alcohol, ... long-term consequences be damned.

The long term effects of all of those listed are fairly well understood. It's about known risk vs. unknown risk.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#593

Post by nanis »

DangerousPie wrote: post #485
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

>> And Pfizer doesn't "make" 1.9b of 100m doses.

True.

> Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine generated $7.8 billion in revenue in the second quarter[1].

Note that with Pharma, there is a fixed cost up front. After that, the marginal cost is relatively small and every extra dose prints money.

Also, there are people in other countries who are being called back for a fourth dose right now.

[1]: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-g...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#594

Post by leesalminen »

collias wrote: post #576
DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

It definitely hasn’t been clear “for a while now” that the vaccine is safe. They do seem to be effective, though. It really depends on what your definition of “safe” is. The vaccines have stated side effects, some of which can severe. The side effects are relatively rare, but non-zero. The other component is time. We’ve proven that the vaccine is mostly safe…for at least a year out. After that, we have no data. You d…

Don’t forget Vioxx!

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#595

Post by giarc »

neither_color wrote: post #570
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

>I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), May I ask why? I've had two shots without much hesitation but this whole booster thing came out of nowhere and gives me "fool me twice" vibes. I understand getting a flu shot every year to target new strains but this would be the exact same shot as 8 months ago.

Boosters are aptly named, they boost your antibody levels.

You are correct the flu shot targets different strains, but the H1N1 strain has been part of the annual flu shot since 2009 simply because it has continued to circulate. So just like you get an H1N1 shot every year (to boost your antibody levels), you will likely get a COVID shot every year to boost those antibodies.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#596

Post by criticaltinker »

DangerousPie wrote: post #485
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

> the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe

Yes the vaccine has been proven to be safe for most adults in the short-term. But blanket statements like this over-simplify the reality of the situation.

People need to be aware that for certain sub-populations (eg pediatrics & pregnant women), there is insufficient scientific evidence - in terms of clinical trials and longitudinal studies - to conclude that the benefits of vaccination always and universally outweigh the risks.

Until consensus has been established in the scientific literature - and even after that - everyone should be making their own decisions based on personal risk evaluation with the consultation of doctors and other medical professionals.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#597

Post by mrcarruthers »

jboggan wrote: post #526
DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

"It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe." Yes, except there is an established process for quantifying "clear for a while now" and it involves sufficient time and control groups. That process isn't being followed and it is concerning for a number of reasons, including the effect of political pressure on expedited drug approvals in the future now that this precedent is being set. Th…

One aspect of the time element is not "this much time has past" but rather "the subjects have had enough exposures to the virus". For some viruses, like HIV, this may take a long time to accomplish. But for COVID, in the middle of a pandemic, it doesn't take that long to accomplish.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#598

Post by adventured »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #513
thesis wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should the flu be mandatory as well? Flu & Covid have similar risks in children: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999241558/in-kids-the-risk-of...

There are a few vaccines I had to have for school when I was younger. What’s the difference?

You're legally an adult, you have full legal control over your body, you're legally fully responsible for your choices, and you're not in school any longer.

You mean other than that?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#599

Post by p_j_w »

acituan wrote: post #451
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

> I recent came across a technique... The moment you start talking about techniques you've already objectified the person across you to something to be finessed over, and as such less than a full person. So many of our recent social-media extremized public debates escalate to the point of denying or diminishing the other side's personhood. They are an "obstacle" to overcome for some greater purpose, and thus we "must…

>The moment you start talking about techniques you've already objectified the person across you

There's nothing about any sort of technique that is inherent to objects and not people. Techniques are something used to achieve a goal, and if a person is involved in that goal, there's nothing wrong with using that sort of verbiage.

>thus we "must" manipulate, coerce or the very least impress conclusions down their throats.

You've made any attempt to change someone's mind out to automatically be something that's naturally evil. Ridiculous.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#600

Post by cle »

bopbeepboop wrote: post #102
cle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? It's not this simple. Not taking a vaccine during a pandemic has negative externalities, since you're increasing the risk of infection and death of those you interact with, you increase the likelihood of consuming scarce resources (such as ICU beds), etc. I largely agree with you, but framing it as a simple "individual choice" issue is reductive at best.

All of those externalities apply to driving a car. Are you saying it would be legal to ban cars for those reasons?

No, I'm not saying anything about whether vaccines should be mandatory or not. Whatever your beliefs, you should be taking these externalities into account. I think there are reasonable, good faith arguments for both voluntary and involuntary vaccination, that still account for these negative externalities--pretending they don't exist does nobody any favors, and we should disregard arguments that ignore them.
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