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Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#591

Post by EastSmith »

whoisjuan wrote: post #132

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card. Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredi…

I was going to buy my first iphone ever this year. Because of the privacy promises. Now I am not sure anymore.

Once they open the door they will not be able to close it ever.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#592

Post by icf80 »

Apple 2019: ‘what happens on your iPhone, stays on your iPhone’

https://9to5mac.com/2019/01/05/apple-privacy-billboard-vegas...

Apple 2021: but we will scan your photos anyway

I don't understand something they are scanning "using a database of known CSAM image hashes"

This means new photos will not be in that database, so what is the point of scanning for old photos as it will not prevent new crimes!

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#593

Post by aj3 »

laurent92 wrote: post #554
istingray wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this take. It shortcuts around all the "but people misunderstand the technology" back and forth and gets to the root of it. "Don't scan my phone for stuff you can send to the police."

Should we consider the phone: - as part of the home? - as part of the human body? In either cases we’re allowed to do crime at home as long as no-one knows it.

No, you’re not allowed to do crime even if you kill all witnesses and destroy all evidence.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#594

Post by bodge5000 »

EastSmith wrote: post #591
whoisjuan wrote: post #132

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card. Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredi…

I was going to buy my first iphone ever this year. Because of the privacy promises. Now I am not sure anymore. Once they open the door they will not be able to close it ever.

For me the only thing stopping me was the lack of type-c and a headphone jack, which at the time was an annoyance but now is turning out to be a blessing in disguise

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#595

Post by shp0ngle »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #223
whoisjuan wrote: post #132

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card. Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredi…

I actually think something else happened, and to be honest I think many at Apple behind this decision are likely pretty surprised by the blowback. That is, it seems like Apple really wanted to preserve "end-to-end" encryption, but they needed to do something to address the CSAM issue lest governments come down on them hard. Thus, my guess is, at least at the beginning, they saw this as a strong win for privacy. As th…

It all seems so weird.

It's actually easier to the the scanning on the backend compared to scanning of the user's phones.

My opinion, maybe entirely wrong, is that it's related to how Apple operates in China. In China, Apple does not actually operate their backends, but their BE is operated by government owned business, which is "leased" by Apple.

Maybe they don't want to enable scanning on BE for that reason, and over-engineered local device scanning, that really doesn't make much sense if you think about it twice?

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#597

Post by hypothesis »

M4v3R wrote: post #574
cucumb3rrelish wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not scanning your device, but your iCloud uploads, and if configured, the imessages of your children

Please do not spread misinformation. The system DOES scan your local device for photos that match CSAM hashes that are downloaded to the device. What you probably meant is that currently it is only enabled if you have iCloud Photos enabled (which almost everyone has), but now that the mechanism for client-side scanning is in place there’s nothing preventing them to turn it on later regardless of your user settings.

I don’t like that system, but according to their summary document, CSAM detection system is only (as described today) processing images that are uploaded to iCloud.

[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#598

Post by franknstein »

Seems to me like an instance of 'bundling problem'. What government actually wants is yes/no answer to the question 'does this photo contains child abuse', but with this 'solution' they get much more information than simple yes/no answer, making abuse of power possible.

Is it possible to just scan photos locally for child pornography, encrypt those photos, and upload those encrypted photos and the 'yes/no' answer that the scan returns plus some cryptographic proof that the actual scan (some calculation) was performed on the uploaded encrypted photo?

If this was possible it would enable privacy and also help prevent child abuse (or at least prevent child pornography from being stored on iCloud).

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#600

Post by amelius »

tuatoru wrote: post #540
jmull wrote: post #167

I just do not want Apple scanning my phone for the purpose of finding something they can send to the police. I’m not even talking about any “slippery slope” scenarios and I’ll never have any of the material they are looking for. And right or wrong, I don’t really fear a false identification, so this isn’t about a worry that they will actually turn me in. I just don’t want them scanning my phone for the purpose of tur…

> I just do not want Apple scanning my phone for the purpose of finding something they can send to the police. Yes. This is called vigilantism.[1] Apple is proposing to become a vigilante. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilantism "Vigilantism is the act of enforcement, investigation or punishment of perceived offenses without legal authority."

"Voyeurism is the act of observing other people without legal authority."
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