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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#591

Post by cycomanic »

JPKab wrote: post #555
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"You do understand this right? At no point were the American public consulted by the intelligence agencies when they did these operations." German public was not informed of the gas chambers, and Soviet public didnt endorse the gulag. So thet don't count then?

The German public were responsible for what they knew of and had control of, just like the Soviet public. These were authoritarian regimes. Nobody is responsible for what they don't know about and are unable to learn about. In what world should they be?

So are you responsible for things you could have known, but deliberately chose not to look into (or not believe)?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#592

Post by CamperBob2 »

cies wrote: post #476
CamperBob2 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A controversial assertion. If there's a "wrong side" of history, there must also be a "right side." Who do you consider to occupy that position?

I'd say post WW2 Scandinavia+Iceland has been rather exemplar. Bhutan comes to mind too.

I see. Bhutan, Scandinavia, and possibly some other countries too small to have much of an effect on humanity one way or the other.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#593

Post by sofixa »

pmoriarty wrote: post #568
sofixa wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How the US avoided international courts is something that should be better explained Might makes right, aka US foreign policy since its inception. The US has never recognised any court that could try them ( like the ICC) and have veto powers in the UN, so they can go about committing war crimes with impunity.

"The US has never recognised any court that could try them ( like the ICC) and have veto powers in the UN, so they can go about committing war crimes with impunity." They don't have to recognize the court in order to be tried in the court, in absentia if need be. It's interesting that despite the power to try alleged US war criminals, the ICC has chosen not to.

The ICC can't choose whatever it wants, it has a charter. It doesn't invent its jurisdiction, it's built on countries participating in it. Which is why its investigating US war crimes in Afghanistan, having jurisdiction there, but not Iraq, where it doesn't.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#594

Post by babayega2 »

alienthrowaway wrote: post #559
joyeuse6701 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

> Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. Not really - the US looks really attractive from the outside - Hollywood propaganda probably does the heavy lifting. The reality is disappointing. Before I immigrated, I told an American expat friend my plans and he asked me a bewildered "Why?!" and that surprised me a little because "The greatest coun…

All my friends are moving to Canada. I intend to go there and buy an apartment for my children next year. USA is not more the dream country to emigrate to.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#595

Post by vkou »

afterburner wrote: post #339
MikeTheGreat wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My recollection of how the conflict was presented was "We need to go to Afghanistan to defeat Al-Qaeda" 20 years later we're still fighting that same war, which is how many people look at the situation and say that the US hasn't achieved it's goals (i.e., has been defeated) I suppose one could say that the US hasn't lost yet, but it's pretty tough to say that the US has won. Honestly, at this point it feels like any…

They definitely defeated Al-Qaeda, they just didn't wipe out the Taliban.

Al-Qaeda was defeated? How does that reconcile with ISIS popping up a few years later, and Libya and Iraq still being in the grips of civil war?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#596

Post by xsmasher »

vmception wrote: post #123
xsmasher wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the name of the film?

I need to look it up from the time and place I was there, I'll edit if I find it in two hours or make a separate comment edit: Les Confins du Monde (English: To the Ends of the World), 2018, directed by Guillaume Nicloux I'm not immediately seeing where to stream it, I would really like to view it again! With English subtitles!

Thank you.

You're right, doesn't seem to be streaming yet. https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/to-the-ends-of-the-world

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#597

Post by bavent »

lightgreen wrote: post #584
bavent wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no thanks. “Junkie criminal” as if you knew him personally. And to think the protests were about a single person - clearly you don’t care enough to be informed. I am of the opinion that you should not be on the side of nazis, ever. Siding with people who want to take away the rights of everyone who doesn’t look like them is kind of a little hypocritical on your part, oh great defender of free speech who also som…

> “Junkie criminal” as if you knew him personally I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal? > And to think the protests were about a single person Sure protests were for all good and against all bad. But there were too many posters about George Floyd and other black criminals, there was too many lies in crime statistics posted by left-wing media supporting these p…

> I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal?

Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you. Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standards, yet he gets a medal of freedom or whatever.

> George Floyd and other black criminals

This is why you are an uninformed racist. You can disagree all you like but it doesn't really change the reality of it.

> everyone who disagree with you is literally nazi.

I never called you or anyone who disagrees with me a nazi. I said "defending nazis is reprehensible" basically.

> I'm on the side of freedom of speech and other human rights.

Again, no you are not. If you defend those who would seek to take away the lives of others, you are not on the side of human rights. Right to life and all that.

> serial killers and rapists deserve humane treatment, right to fair trial etc. Including free speech. Abandoning eye for an eye principle is also a great achievement of the western civilization.

I agree, but this isn't a trial.

>decides it is acceptable to take speech rights from nazis, tomorrow it will decide it can take speech rights from communists

I mean, it did? Look at the 50's. Rightwing cancel culture and deplatforming at it's finest. Also, taking away the rights of those who don't respect the same right in others is kind of ok - that's sort of what our justice system is based on, since you likened this to a trial.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#598

Post by throwaway6734 »

DeliriumTrigger wrote: post #492
throwaway6734 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US looked like a force of good after WW2, but that deteriorated quickly. Not that other western nation states are holy, but the US seems to be the ringleader. Humanity has seen the most positive growth by far under Pax Americana. What's your alternative?

Stop with the whataboutism we don't know if there was a better alternative because we hadn't have the chance to see one. It's that easy it could have been worse or better.

>It's that easy it could have been worse or better.

Lead by who?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#599

Post by throwaway6734 »

SirLotsaLocks wrote: post #491
throwaway6734 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US looked like a force of good after WW2, but that deteriorated quickly. Not that other western nation states are holy, but the US seems to be the ringleader. Humanity has seen the most positive growth by far under Pax Americana. What's your alternative?

>Humanity has seen the most positive growth by far under Pax Americana. It's not really much of a Pax Americana in the middle east or Central/South America. East Asia seems to be next too. "Pax Americana" has definitely been amazing for the west and it's friends but as countries like China and India start to challenge that, true colors will probably start to show as the existing world power(s) fight to keep that titl…

Global poverty has plummeted over the last 70 years

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#600

Post by lightgreen »

bavent wrote: post #597
lightgreen wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Junkie criminal” as if you knew him personally I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal? > And to think the protests were about a single person Sure protests were for all good and against all bad. But there were too many posters about George Floyd and other black criminals, there was too many lies in crime statistics posted by left-wing media supporting these p…

> I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal? Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you. Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standards, yet he gets a medal of freedom or whatever. > George Floyd and other black criminals This is why you are an uninformed racist. You can disagree all you like but it doesn't really change the…

> Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you.

You cannot seriously believe he was not a criminal and a junkie.

Here the left wing sources about his criminal history: https://www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-who-is.html

Here is left wing source about his drug use: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/08/us/derek-chauvin-trial-ge...

> Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standards, yet he gets a medal of freedom or whatever.

Many criminals junkies walk free regardless of their skin color. George Floyd was just too unlucky to be high on several drugs, committed crime and resisted arrest on the same day. This combo could not end well.

> This is why you are an uninformed racist. You can disagree all you like but it doesn't really change the reality of it.

I'm not a racist, and I don't talk with people who throw insults, and generally don't talk to people who cannot conduct a constructive dialogue.

So this is my last reply to you. You may reply, and I'll read that reply, but I won't reply to you again. It was an interesting conversation. Thanks!

> I never called you or anyone who disagrees with me a nazi.

I was speaking figuratively. It just happens way to often by left wing people. In fact, you just called me racist in the same message. There's irony in that.

> If you defend those who would seek to take away the lives of others, you are not on the side of human rights.

I must say, you don't understand the modern meaning of human rights. Even criminals have these rights. Like UN requires it, all of the western countries signed it, most of the world countries signed it. It is universally agreed on in the western society. Well, I thought so, until I read your comment, and was quite disappointed. I thought better of left-wing people.

> Also, taking away the rights of those who don't respect the same right in others is kind of ok

So it's OK to rape the rapist, I got it. And I already replied to that: fortunately eye for an eye was abandoned by the western civilization, but unfortunately left-wing people are pulling civilization back to the dark ages.

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