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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#591

Post by anonfornoreason »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #538
thepasswordis wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear: these aren't my views. I live on the Coast, and probably work at the same company some of you guys work at. I just also happen to have close friends who live outside of the bubble we all inhabit. They think that they want to be left alone. They don't want what they perceive as coastal values forced upon their kids in school.

What values would those be?

Classics liberal here, recently moved out of west coast city to west coast rural area in large part due to critical race theory and fairly radical trans activism. Couldn’t stomache the current school curriculum around both topics.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#592

Post by shkkmo »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #554
bobthepanda wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s also the question of whether or not Idaho would actually want to take them.

Sounds like the governor of Idaho is down with it: In an interview with Fox News, Idaho Gov. Brad Little said he understands why some rural Oregonians want to redraw the borders. "They’re looking at Idaho fondly because of our regulatory atmosphere, our values, Little told Fox News. What they’re interested in is they would like to have a little more autonomy, a little more control, a little more freedom and I can und…

That sounds like the govenor understands their point of view, not that he is willing to take on the massive legal and political battle that would ensue if this moved forwards.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#593

Post by astrognomy »

Ccecil wrote: post #580
astrognomy wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, there are now huge sections of Boise now where 600k is considered a steal. Boiseans are among those other markets and they moving to other parts of the state as part of this housing shortage. Anecdotally, just as you've seen unregistered/expired tags, I've had two coworkers use the new remote work freedom to move to CdA/Sandpoint area.

Which leads to another issue which isn't brought up enough. What is going to happen to all the remote high paid workers when it becomes the common trend to scale pay to the area? Currently...you need to make 3x the average pay to be eligible for a house. Anyone who loses their job that has moved to the area is going to find that there is little to no high paying jobs for quite some distance. It has already happened t…

Totally legit question. I know for Boise "scale pay for the area" already has a wildly different meaning depending on the employer.

I've had employers who hired in Boise for cheaper talent than in SoCal (50-80% the pay,) I've had others who pay the same as Salt Lake City -- closest metro area with data, and another who took the Seattle office averages -40-75k and called it fair. Tech wages here are extremely variable and have little to do with local cost of living.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#594

Post by d110af5ccf »

ModernMech wrote: post #561
d110af5ccf wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no idea what "side" anyone else belongs to, and I don't see why it matters. You're missing the point entirely. Drugs aren't an isolated example. There are a number of highly divisive issues in the US for which the majority of Americans appear to hold largely emotionally based views. (Note that the degree to which a view is emotional is entirely orthogonal to whether or not it can be arrived at rationally.) >…

I'm sorry, I thought I was engaging in a conversation with specific people about a specific topic (drug decriminalization). I didn't realize I was engaging in a nebulous discussion ranging to what liberals feel about guns. I don't have anything to say about that topic at the moment. Apologies.

Again, you are missing the point. No one asked you about your particular views on that topic. Rather, a disparate topic was used to illustrate a broader point about the process itself. Surely the broader context is relevant when discussing a controversial issue that tends to elicit strong emotional responses from participants?

Burying your head in the sand won't change the fact that there are significant emotional components which are relevant here.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#595

Post by sircastor »

chrononaut wrote: post #414
icedistilled wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sets a bad precedent. Any county can just vote to break off into another state due to political reasons or to form their own state? Either one party will use that to their advantage and disallow the other party from doing the same, or every state will devolve into fragments. Why stop at counties? Why can't zip codes choose the grouping that best represents them too?

> Any county can just vote to break off into another state due to political reasons or to form their own state? While your question is still an interesting thought experiment, it is worth noting that OP was referring to counties moving between two existing states, not counties seceding a former a _new_ state, which would certainly have different ramifications.

There has been an idea of the west coast states seceding from the Union to form a new country (Cascadia) for quite some time. Though I imagine it’d be a more narrow strip than the whole of Oregon, Washington, and California.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#596

Post by AtlasBarfed »

I'll predict these counties are largely GOP.

This will open up precedent for urban areas to secede from their states and declare themselves states.

The GOP maintains power via the senate's disproportionate empowering of rural states. Before anyone says that the senate is intended to represent land, just realize that almost all of this "representation of land" is done via white senators.

If democratic urban areas declared themselves states, gaining senators to represent themselves (and depriving the rural areas of the economic vitality of the cities, then the GOP would be finished.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#597

Post by kolbe »

newacct583 wrote: post #587
kolbe wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analysis lumps all violence equally, and suffers greatly from the variance inherent in reporting of “light” violent the crime. Homicides are much better to look at. There is very little difference between Alaska and New Orleans in their reporting of homicides. And when you judge rural vs urban by homicide rate, urban is much larger. Of the top 10 counties with the highest homicide rate, 4 are major metropolitan…

> Of the top 10 counties with the highest homicide rate, 4 are major metropolitan areas. Easiest way to tell someone is lying with statistics is when they try to make a point by counting outliers at the edge of the distribution. I don't see how what you're saying follows at all. It seems just as likely that broad exurban counties are more economically inclusive while urban counties tend to cluster very-poor high crim…

I hear it’s healthy to ignore data that contradicts your prejudices because you’re “suspicious.” /s

If you want to investigate it more, then that actually would be healthy. But instead you look at some colors on a map delineated by state lines, and think that’s convincing evidence. It’s clear you’re only interested in validating your pre-existing beliefs when you jump with such energy into flimsy data that corroborates your prejudices while dismissing other analyses out of “suspicion” when they contradict you.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#598

Post by hackyhacky »

iammisc wrote: post #421
akomtu wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it's the old dispute about 2A and I kind of understand them. Last time I heard, Oregon voted to outlaw mags with more than 10 bullets. Rural folks have disagreed and resolved the conflict in a civil manner: by declaring that they will have different laws from the big city Oregon.

As is their right. Self-determination is an American value. EDIT: downvoted by those who believe voting and determining your area's form of governance is anti-American!

We fought a war about "determining your area's form of governance." As I recall, the south lost that one.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#599

Post by AtlasBarfed »

rhacker wrote: post #291
URSpider94 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see the data, but from the data I have seen, the data conflict with the popular (populist) narrative. A lot of people in America seem to believe that the hardworking "real Americans" in the middle of the country are subsidizing the poorly-run coastal liberal enclaves. In reality, the money almost always flows in the other direction; taxpayers in cities are subsidizing the rural-dwellers. This has noth…

I think the reason they think it's subsidizing the rich enclaves is because they believe the rich enclaves aren't really working - they're just generating revenue from information advantage. We're just building systems of control and making money from it. Compare that to them cleaning out a grain cart or chopping up a 300 pound pig. What is work? And why did I make nearly $300 today vs them who will make $300 for tha…

Rent extraction in the information landscape?

You seem correct on that at least.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#600

Post by intended »

lief79 wrote: post #341
hackyhacky wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reading comprehension skills are terrible. 1. In this hypothetical situation, the cheaper food comes from abroad, now that there are no import tariffs. 2. I never said subsidies aren't necessary: I don't know how you can infer that point from what I wrote. I said that subsidies exist to protect American farmers, so American farmers should stop complaining about those who fund them. American farming is as profita…

Have you considered just how much of the international surplus the US produces, and how much of the total production it currently consumes? I suspect running the numbers would indicate a clear international need for the US breadbasket, and not a decrease in overall cost due to a large drop in supply.

Agriculture is one of the more subsidized and protected industries around the world.

Sugar from the desert levels of subsidies.

Farmers and Food are a voting group and commodity that will always be catered to and protected, no matter what the economic cost.

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