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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#591

Post by anotherman554 »

subtypefiddler wrote: post #588
anotherman554 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are citing a study that isn't peer reviewed as a "data point" but when you summarize it like that looks like a factual claim when no factual conclusion should be drawn. It would be an interesting data point if there was any particularly reason to believe the document you cited would hold up to further study.

> study that isn't peer reviewed Terrier, C., 2020. Boys lag behind: How teachers’ gender biases affect student achievement. Economics of Education Review, 77, p.101981. "Economics of Education Review is a quarterly peer-reviewed academic journal covering education economics. It was established in 1981 and is published by Elsevier." What are you talking about?

The link I followed upthread was to a working paper from 2016, not a journal article published in 2020.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#592

Post by thewileyone »

chewxy wrote: post #483
zionic wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations will consider us barbarians for dosing our young boys with drugs because we providing them with physical education/exercise was inconvenient to us. They'll also be able to datamine the internet from this time period and use our own words to hang us.

Runnning around does not make a child with ADHD more sedate or perform better in the classroom. "Just go do some exercise" is like telling depressed people to "just cheer up". Yes, exercise definitely helps. But it doesn't make one's mind less noisy internally. Buddhists talk of monkey minds. ADHD is like having a zoo of minds. This anti-medication bias is causing a lot of stigma in society for children who actually…

My daughter has a lot of energy and without some exercise, my wife thought she was demonstrating signs of ADHD; thanks FB Moms, you ignoramuses.

Signed her up for gymnastics and ballet and she calmed down a whole lot and did better in the classroom as well.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#593

Post by jl2718 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #584
jl2718 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I’d really like to see less of on this board, is argumentation by labeling an idea with some obscure field-dependent term, with no other logical support presented. Admittedly we allow this in mathematically rigorous fields, and there is, perhaps, some discussion to be had about what is rigorously proven as an inviolable natural law in the social sciences. It seems to me that such terms are admissible in the…

Fortunately, I was not arguing against the parent to whom I replied by simply vomiting out a little term. I was saying, "Hey, there is a common name for this idea you just mentioned, you may find it useful going forward."

This shows my bias toward assuming hostility of commenters, and I apologize for that.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#594

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #489
tester756 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Feelings are more important than facts to many people nowadays. is it good or bad in your opinion?

From what I've perceived it seems like in general it harms discourse more than it helps.

From my observations it appears to be incredibly corrosive socially.

The scale of the damage it is doing in western society at the moment will need books, not chapters, dedicated to it in the future.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#595

Post by PoignardAzur »

muskox2 wrote: post #534
PoignardAzur wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think it will average out eventually. New political currents hate ambiguity and nuance. If you're trying to motivate people to rise up against the Empire, the last thing you want to hear is people saying "Okay, but some imperial officers are actually good people, and this Saw Guerrera is a sadistic monster", even though both are true. Eventually, once the Rebellion becomes widespread enough, people start saying…

I think what happens in real life is the rebellion quickly becomes an empire, with it's own set of horrible things. Then you need a new rebellion... And so on...

Oh please.

Saying "the Rebellion becomes an Empire" implies that the side that fought against the bad things starts to do equally bad things once it gets into power.

Homosexuality was punishable by death in England up until 1861. Women didn't have the right to vote in France until 1945. Progressive extremists get people fired, and can even commit violent crimes sometimes, but they're nowhere near as bad as the state-approved violence that the minorities they defend were historically subject to (and still are in some countries).

Writing a transphobic tweet can get you fired, and I agree that's bad. Being transgender can get you killed. Saying "the rebellion becomes an empire, we need a new rebellion against them" is incredibly dismissive of the abuse marginalized groups go through.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#596

Post by PoignardAzur »

ZGDUwpqEWpUZ wrote: post #505
PoignardAzur wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to put this factually... Discourse about bias usually makes strong distinctions between groups that are known have relative positions of power in their society (because this discourse is mostly held in Western culture, that usually boils down to "white heterosexual christian-adjacent men") and minority/disenfranchised groups (women, religious minorities, ethnic minorities, LGBT people, etc). Progressive groups ar…

Women are neither a minority nor disenfranchised. And before someone points to male over-representation in government, maybe think for a moment: whose votes put those men there? This failure to think critically leads to some very silly arguments, for example abortion control being "male politicians controlling women's bodies", when in reality men's and women's opinions on abortions are extremely similar (in the US, a…

> Not only is this toxic, it's also counter-productive when we're supposed to pretend that women aren't half of society and thus perfectly capable of contributing to gender roles

I never said or implied that.

The fact that members of oppressed groups can be bigoted (including against their own group) isn't a novel concept.

Yes, women can be sexist against women, and yes, women can be sexist against men. That doesn't mean patriarchy doesn't exist.

> And before someone points to male over-representation in government, maybe think for a moment: whose votes put those men there?

That's not really convincing.

Rich people and families with old money are over-represented in government. And yet we must presume that poor people voted to get them in place too. There are explanations for that (eg maybe rich people can afford expensive schools where they learn to be competent politicians), but overall any system that can select against poor people can select against women too, even if that system is mostly democratic.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#597

Post by stretchwithme »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #430
stretchwithme wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or changing the unnatural environment.

Sometimes the unnatural environment is significantly more difficult to alter (as an individual).

Sometimes. But people can move their kids to a different school, the environment referred to, if they live in a free society.

My parents did it. Sent to us to Catholic schools instead for many years. And we grew up on welfare.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#598

Post by ZGDUwpqEWpUZ »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #596
ZGDUwpqEWpUZ wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women are neither a minority nor disenfranchised. And before someone points to male over-representation in government, maybe think for a moment: whose votes put those men there? This failure to think critically leads to some very silly arguments, for example abortion control being "male politicians controlling women's bodies", when in reality men's and women's opinions on abortions are extremely similar (in the US, a…

> Not only is this toxic, it's also counter-productive when we're supposed to pretend that women aren't half of society and thus perfectly capable of contributing to gender roles I never said or implied that. The fact that members of oppressed groups can be bigoted (including against their own group) isn't a novel concept. Yes, women can be sexist against women, and yes, women can be sexist against men. That doesn't…

> The fact that members of oppressed groups can be bigoted (including against their own group) isn't a novel concept.

If women are being sexist against men, then men are also an oppressed group. This isn't a novel concept.

You're classifying one side as oppressed and the other as oppressor on the basis of a single data point - looking at the very top of society. This would be valid if gender roles were handed down from the top of society, but that's simply not the world you and I live in.

Modern gender roles are a much more grass-roots affair and women are perfectly positioned to influence them. Every complaint about gendered toys, for example, implicates women more so than men.

When mothers push gender roles on their sons that fathers do not, it is absurd to suggest that there is some self-sustaining system called "patriarchy" (literally "the rule of fathers") at fault. You may deny it, but it is a transparent attempt at denying women's agency and placing the blame on men instead.

Frankly, it's boring and at this point I'm comfortable discarding the opinions of anyone who uses the word "patriarchy" outside discussions on religion (i.e. the only context in which gender roles are still top-down).

> Rich people and families with old money are over-represented in government. And yet we must presume that poor people voted to get them in place too

While wealthier people have advantages in terms of getting into politics, they still have to conform to popular opinion to get elected. Most European countries have strong labour movements that reflect this. I don't deny that men have an advantage getting into politics. I do deny that this single data point is sufficient to prove an oppressor/oppressed relationship between men/women. Gender roles are a trade, and women are active participants.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#599

Post by musicale »

dominotw wrote: post #183
throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

Do you think it has anything to do with girls having better handwriting. I couldn't improve my handwriting for the life of me when i was in school and got really poor grades from teachers not being able to read what i was writing.

Schools have largely (and probably wisely) abandoned looped cursive handwriting, a fiendishly difficult sort of writing with variant letter forms and complicated joins, but I tend to think that teaching cursive italic, a simple and beautiful form of cursive writing (think William Shakespeare rather than Thomas Jefferson) that uses the same letter forms as printed italic with simple joins, would make it easier for boys and girls to develop better handwriting overall, both printed and cursive.

That being said, handwritten long-form text seems like a rarity in the age of computers, though I still feel that I express things differently in handwriting.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#600

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