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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#591

Post by kekebo »

chalst wrote: post #539
lrvick wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are going to move from one centralized, walled garden, privacy hostile platform that hard requires Google/Apple ecosystems to get signed updates... to another with identical drawbacks. I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want, uses the same crypto primitives, and lets you choose what server/country your data is hosted in and change your mind any time, e.g Matrix. How many times do cen…

I don't like Signal's stance on forks (which is that they are allowed but may not use the official Signal network) but it hardly has identical drawbacks. Signal is open source, can be downloaded as an official APK and can be run on LineageOS without Google Play (notifications do require some emulation of Play Services calls, but that can be provided using MicroG).

Another key difference would be the business model. Signal being a non-profit[0] does not provide any guarantees for the app to not become 'hostile' in the future, but any such development motivated by personal profits would at least require a change of organization type, which I assume wouldn't go unnoticed.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Foundation

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#592

Post by Razengan »

I guess the most valuable data WhatsApp leeches from you is your contacts graph.

Wish Apple would let us choose which contacts to give specific apps access to, like they did for photos.

In the meantime, you can try minimizing what WhatsApp sees about you by turning off access to contacts, using the desktop or web app, and just talking to people via

https://wa.me/{phoneNumber}

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#593

Post by panta »

nly wrote: post #570
cranekam wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their infra is generating those encryption certificates, so WhatsApp can very well decode the message and store it for further processing. This is incorrect. The sender's device generates the key with which it encrypts outgoing messages. WhatsApp's infra cannot see the content of any messages sent. (Source: ex-WhatsApp employee)

Encryption is useless is the remote party can silently rekey and be re-authenticated as legitimate silently. WhatsApp could almost certainly perform active MITM

There is no need to rekey or do anything similar. Chats are available locally on the device, WhatsApp may simply implement a side channel to access those (they could already have one to satisfy agencies btw)

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#594

Post by mtrycz2 »

a0-prw wrote: post #579

I use Signal to chat with my family and friends. I use sms or an in-house service to communicate with colleagues. I only use WhatsApp with my gf. I don't have fb or Instagram. What effect does this policy change have on me? Obviously, fb will receive some data on me and my communications with my gf, connecting me to her (extensive) network on fb, but how worried should I be ?

You should be worried for your gf, probably. And all the other millions of non technical users.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#595

Post by endless1234 »

noncoml wrote: post #290
endless1234 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you come to that number? $30 per month from WhatsApp alone? This source seems to think it's closer to $30 per year per user for the whole of facebook: https://www.statista.com/statistics/234056/facebooks-average...

For US users: https://market.us/statistics/social-media/facebook/ Is it per year? Per Quarter? Not clear to me. But yeah, definitely not per month, but also much higher than the $1/year the GP is offering.

Ah true, for US users it would be a lot higher. Seems to be around $10 billion per quarter of revenue for US and Canada[1], which means around 15 per user (for around 250 million users[2]. You weren't that far off! That's definitely a lot more than what the gut feeling I had was (which is why I just googled the first stat that seemed to align with my hunch - classic mistake).

1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/223280/facebooks-quarter... 2: https://www.statista.com/statistics/408971/number-of-us-face... + ~20 for canada

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#596

Post by dessant »

skinkestek wrote: post #561
dessant wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our quest to fully convert to Signal has hit a major wall, Android tablets are not supported as linked devices. Supporting tablets would allow us to chat and send files across devices, without resorting to apps like Messenger.

Depending on your exact needs either Telegram or (preferably IMO) Matrix might be a solution. (Yes, I think this is correct: For anyone who are currently on WhatsApp or anything Facebook for that matter even Telegram is a huge improvement in most ways.)

I get your point, but moving people to Signal has been an accomplishment on its own, you get to say "we should move to this new private app" only so many times, before your friends and family grab their torches.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#597

Post by tremon »

lrvick wrote: post #588
chalst wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like Signal's stance on forks (which is that they are allowed but may not use the official Signal network) but it hardly has identical drawbacks. Signal is open source, can be downloaded as an official APK and can be run on LineageOS without Google Play (notifications do require some emulation of Play Services calls, but that can be provided using MicroG).

Moxie highly discourages using the APK because it means turning on untrusted sources which is highly unsafe and bypasses signature verification. It is one BGP attack or compromised CDN admin way from compromising the masses. This is one of the few points I agree with moxie on. The only safe way to install software on an Android device requires you bootstrap trust via a system supplied package manager that enforces si…

Moxie highly discourages using the APK because it means turning on untrusted sources which is highly unsafe and bypasses signature verification

That's nice, but why should Moxie decide whether the Google Play Store is a trusted source for me?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#598

Post by rvwaveren »

submeta wrote: post #467

I am in the EU, and this is what I have been presented with: „ By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021. After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account and would like more information. To learn more about how WhatsApp processes your data, read our updated privacy pol…

In the EU, there are different terms that you should agree to: https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/terms-of-service-eea

As far as I understand, because of GDPR, the sharing of data between Facebook companies is limited. This is different from the US terms.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#599

Post by grandchild »

pkamb wrote: post #437

The part that creeps me out the most is WhatsApp’s aggressiveness towards getting your Contacts. Other apps want them but WhatsApp hardly works without the permission. Why hasn’t Apple introduced a private/segmented Contacts permission like they have Photos, Location, etc.?

FWIW: I've been using whatsapp without access to my contacts with the help of this little app: "Open in Whatsapp"

https://github.com/subhamtyagi/openinwa

You can enter a number in that app and it will launch a conversation with them in whatsapp. I think it makes use of the API mentioned in sibling comments.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#600

Post by hkt »

submeta wrote: post #467

I am in the EU, and this is what I have been presented with: „ By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021. After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account and would like more information. To learn more about how WhatsApp processes your data, read our updated privacy pol…

May I recommend Delta Chat?

It's an email client (with clever, seamless encryption based on gpg) with a WhatsApp style interface. There's a desktop client too.

I've only ever managed to get one person to use it, but goodness it'd be nice to get rid of WhatsApp.

Edit: URL https://delta.chat/

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