Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#591

Post by Dylan16807 » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:32 AM UTC

foxtr0t wrote: post #559

Dylan16807 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joke's on them, I was only acting dumb! Seriously, you putting a bullet point with no explanation, and got an equally terse rebuttal. You didn't "win" that.

Let me help you. I offered "Lights" as a design requirement unique to vehicles with respect to phones. Without any explanation it leaves the door open to a surface level counter point "Phones also have lights" that requires a functioning brain and the most basic level of reasoning. Lights on modern vehicles (high beams, low beams, DRLs, blinkers, brake lights) are certainly not simple components, especially those on…

Lights are highly regulated but they're very straightforward regulations to follow. If you're not even going to bother to write out a sentence then it's not worth responding to it seriously, because it's hardly a reasonable objection in the first place; any random engineer could handle it solo.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#592

Post by Spivak » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:34 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #532

ttul wrote: post #512

Classic Apple. They dabble in various things for years until the moment is right to strike with a version 2.0 of something that others already make. Apple rarely enters the market with something that nobody has ever seen before. Apple Watch, iPad, iPhone, and iPod... These were not the first products in their category, but they were the first to get the category truly right. This being said, I have no idea what Apple…

> This being said, I have no idea what Apple will get right about cars that others have not. To the smug 2026 posters who link this thread to laugh at us: my prediction is Apple ships a clean, simplified no-frills electric car 2.0 _subscription_.

I realize that a car subscription is sorta-kinda leasing but I really wish that that there was a proper subscription car service.

I’m in the hook for gas/charging, taking it to you for service or a swap at your request, and personal liability insurance. You’re on the hook for everything else. Standard month to month or yearly for a discount pricing.

It’s one of those situations where someone other than the driver owning the car makes the incentives line up nicely. Renters have the incentive and capital to get maximum reliability from manufacturers and competition plus scale drives prices to somewhere near depreciation plus mean maintenance which is the best you can really hope to do as a consumer looking to buy.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#593

Post by 01100011 » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:36 AM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #56

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

>Apple is just about the only company with a similar ethos and enough money and patience to be a viable competitor and have a competitive brand known for quality. Mostly agree, though I suspect a few of the major car companies like Volkswagon/Audi and Toyota/Lexus are capable of this as well. But yes, Apple has the cash reserves to not just manufacture electric cars, but to build out the necessary infrastructure netw…

Apple has the cash to do all kinds of things. Why shouldn't Apple get into transoceanic shipping? Mining? Canned food?

All of these things are outside of Apple's core focus and they are unlikely to possess an advantage over other players. Sort of like automobiles.

The world is starting to feel like 1999 all over again. People's visions are getting further and further removed from reality.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#594

Post by SkyMarshal » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:37 AM UTC

enos_feedler wrote: post #571

ethbr0 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net present value of future projected earnings, adjusted for risk . That last part seems to be missing. Likely because the smart money knows that retail investors + indices = momentum trading on sectors. As there's no ability for anyone to call BS in the way they used to be able to. Or to put it another way: if I'm Toyota, I have a demonstrated ability to build cars profitably. If I'm someone who says I can build as…

If you are Toyota, you've only demonstrated you could build cars profitably for the consumer market you were already in. If consumer preferences, trends, etc have changed, and no product is yet available to fulfill those new preferences, there is actually risk that what you are good at building profitably isn't what people want anymore. There is risk in that too.

Well to nitpick a little, in the case of Toyota at least, and given the success of the Prius, it seem Toyota has proven they can identify and succeed in (or even create) new consumer markets.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#595

Post by gls2ro » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:37 AM UTC

mcot2 wrote: post #574

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

Different take here. I think they should stick to the computer/operating system of a car and either take a large stake in an existing automaker or license the technology to several of them. Actually _making_ cars is doomed to be a failure. You need a massive workforce and very large factories. It is fairly low margin compared to even computer hardware let alone software. Then they have to support these cars which mea…

While I would really like to have in other cars components made by Apple I dont think Apple is a company which sells parts to be integrated by someone else. They like and they are good at having an end to end experience with the enduser.

Also I think they and the market (investors) dont want/expect them to be a part of a supply chain.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#596

Post by Ygg2 » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:41 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #519

foxtr0t wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're asking this question seriously, I have to ask a clarification question: what are we actually talking about? Are we comparing just certain aspects of production of the whole thing? If you think about this from an engineering perspective for even 30 seconds there are so many differences that come to mind. - Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone - Must operate in a much w…

> Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone I don't think this is true. Most electric cars are re-charged once a day, which is about the same as a phone. > Must operate in a much wider variety of conditions than a phone Also, not really true if you look at the range of temperature and conditions an iPhone is rated for. (Including water resistance. Mine went through a washing machine…

> But given Apple's unrelenting engineering excellence, there's very little chance they'll design a substandard or unsafe product. Therefore regulatory compliance is merely an issue of hiring enough lawyers

Wat.

Phone safety compared to car safety is like comparing bottle rocket to Saturn V. If bottle rocket/phone goes south, you generally don't expect loss of life.

Fuck, Tesla can't seem to wrap their head around this. They used standard phone like quality components in car. Which caused stuff to stop working in regular car conditions e.g. noon left in car.

> iPhones definitely have lights.

This has about as much relevance as nothern lights do.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#597

Post by SkyMarshal » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:45 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #593

SkyMarshal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple is just about the only company with a similar ethos and enough money and patience to be a viable competitor and have a competitive brand known for quality. Mostly agree, though I suspect a few of the major car companies like Volkswagon/Audi and Toyota/Lexus are capable of this as well. But yes, Apple has the cash reserves to not just manufacture electric cars, but to build out the necessary infrastructure netw…

Apple has the cash to do all kinds of things. Why shouldn't Apple get into transoceanic shipping? Mining? Canned food? All of these things are outside of Apple's core focus and they are unlikely to possess an advantage over other players. Sort of like automobiles. The world is starting to feel like 1999 all over again. People's visions are getting further and further removed from reality.

Apple's core focus is Design of consumer electronic appliances. Making complicated technology simple, intuitive, and trouble-free, and hiding the complexities behind the scenes. Technically, an Electric Car fits that description too.

The challenge is that the complexities of an EV are similar, but greater in scale than for consumer electronic devices - more parts, more complex supply chains, more extensive support network (charging stations, maintenance providers).

Whether Apple can scale up to handle those increased complexities, and whether they calculate it's financially worth it for them, I doubt anyone outside Apple can really know at this time.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#598

Post by the_arun » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 6:47 AM UTC

mamp wrote: post #585

the_arun wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need smart electric appliances from Apple at home - lights, washer/dryer, refrigerator, etc.,. We'll be controlled by Apple wherever we go :) Apple eyewear could even track how many times we flip our eyelids.

The point is that they don’t need to. They are not selling advertising, they are selling privacy as a service. E.g. Apple maps breaks apart your journey on their side so they can’t reconstruct your journey from a to b.

They may not need maps for this. They could use geolocation or “findMyDevice” service which may be collecting this data already. Right?

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#599

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 7:08 AM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #526

dcolkitt wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone I don't think this is true. Most electric cars are re-charged once a day, which is about the same as a phone. > Must operate in a much wider variety of conditions than a phone Also, not really true if you look at the range of temperature and conditions an iPhone is rated for. (Including water resistance. Mine went through a washing machine…

Each of these comparisons makes sense at only the most superficial level. The automotive industry may have more in common with personal electronics than it did thirty years ago, but forced comparisons belie the unique and complex challenges in shipping a road-legal car. And yet, that massive gulf is the whole point here. Apple is treading in 95% unfamiliar waters, but the company has proven time and again this is its…

Wait, they definitely made phones and watches before. You just don't remember them ;)

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#600

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 7:10 AM UTC

rangoon626 wrote: post #582

jandrese wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first couple of generations of the iPod kinda sucked too. It's really hard to get everything perfect in the first generation, probably impossible. Having the agility to iterate on the design quickly so you can capitalize on the initial hype is what Apple does so well.

Did they? Not that much about the iPod changed between 2001 and 2005. A simple to use interface, large storage made it great from the start, but windows support it what made it successful.

It got smaller. The original iPod was…kind of big.