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Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#591

Post by lkxijlewlf »

VikingCoder wrote: post #51
ditonal wrote: post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

When it's convenient to add a corp profile to a personal phone, buy a new personal phone exclusively for that, don't put your own profile on it at all. Use Swappa or similar. Used phones are not that expensive. And you can just Hotspot from your personal phone, you don't need data for it. YMMV, but that worked well for me.

Don't pay for that out of pocket. It's their responsibility.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#592

Post by AshWolfy »

twblalock wrote: post #276
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

> The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual negotiations are, best I can tell, way in the past. Are you kidding? Salaries have never been higher in tech. Senior engineers make more than $400k (sometimes way more) at Google and other large companies. It is likely that engineers at FAANG companies would make less money if they join a union, because the union would level…

Sectoral bargaining is rare, its typically within individual employers or workplaces, even if we decide to do sectoral bargaining unions are democratic, and we could change what we bargain for or refuse to participate in sectoral bargaining

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#593

Post by austhrow743 »

dayjobpork wrote: post #582
austhrow743 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental leave is part of compensation. It's just extra cash but with strings attached. Things like parental leave are exactly why some people don't like collective bargaining. It means you get stuck being compensated with something you're not going to use instead of cash.

To be clear, you are against other workers benefiting from something if you yourself don't benefit?

Absolutely not.

I'm against giving up my ability to negotiate for myself to someone who is going to negotiate for compensation that I can't use at the expense of compensation I can.

Also, weird take. In a scenario where compensation has no lifestyle strings attached to it, both the childless person and the child having person can use that money. Pushing for heavy parental leave is the "fuck you, getting mine" option.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#594

Post by [deleted] »

renewiltord wrote: post #466
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

People should be allowed to unionize but I'll oppose it at every front. Because mass power means mass power that can be turned against me. 2016 taught me something. There are a large contingent of anti-immigrants out there. Should you allow the creation of a mob, a day will come when the populists will take control of it. In moments, the mob can break generations of integration. The best defence against it is prevent…

[deleted]

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#595

Post by AshWolfy »

renewiltord wrote: post #492
postingpals wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was planning to argue with this, but I only feel sorry that you see something as historically useful as unionising in such a light.

Thanks for sharing your position in any case. Historic anti-immigrant stances by America's biggest unions are close to why I feel this way.

What about unions like the UFW which were among the greatest champions of immigrant rights in the US. The accepted line in unions these days is anti immigration efforts divide workers

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#596

Post by [deleted] »

munk-a wrote: post #323
jbay808 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To contrast, if this person had said[...] I mean, Google could also have made that their response, rather than terminating the relationship right there. "We're sorry we can't change the contract; would it work for you to use a work phone? We can pay for that."

Absolutely - and it seems likely their rejection may not have been due to the contract change request but due to the fact the potential employee rocked the boat... Which is quite not okay in my eyes.

[deleted]

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#597

Post by AshWolfy »

renewiltord wrote: post #466
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

People should be allowed to unionize but I'll oppose it at every front. Because mass power means mass power that can be turned against me. 2016 taught me something. There are a large contingent of anti-immigrants out there. Should you allow the creation of a mob, a day will come when the populists will take control of it. In moments, the mob can break generations of integration. The best defence against it is prevent…

Mobs are a fact of life, you can either live in denial, or you can try and make things better

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#598

Post by Karunamon »

bonoboTP wrote: post #583
lokar wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we know is one person said that's what happened. I certainly know of people who have suggested and gotten changes to agreements like this. But you need to be professional about it.

What do you mean by professional here? My guess is some mix of emotional detachment, serious tone and use of the right jargon and vocabulary?

Put bluntly, being a PITA when it wasn't at all necessary, as corp-issued devices are common. If I were a manager hiring this guy and heard that he kicked back the standard contract everyone else has for a pointless reason that had a workaround everyone already knows about, I'd have ended it right there because it casts their judgment in a poor light and I could see them causing me or my department issues in the future.

"Poor culture fit".

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#599

Post by creato »

nullc wrote: post #354
thraway12 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't Google party to an implicit CARTEL agreement not to compete amongst hiring tech talent? https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

Yes. Adobe, Apple Inc., Google, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, Lucasfilm and eBay. Apple's involvement was particularly egregious: they threatened to destroy adobe with spurious patent litigation unless they participated. Google executives also explicitly acknowledged that there actions were illegal and directed staff to keep discussions about it out of email. The companies basically got a slap on the wrist: the settlement wa…

> Apple's involvement was particularly egregious: they threatened to destroy adobe with spurious patent litigation unless they participated.

My impression (from the emails that were quoted in the news at the time) was that Steve Jobs was the driving force behind it. All the other participants seemed to just go along with it. Still wrong, but I doubt it would have happened without Jobs pushing it.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#600

Post by inetknght »

dheera wrote: post #587
colejohnson66 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about depositions, so the knowledge of an investigation followed by destruction of the data (whether intention or not) by handing the device over would be a crime. I can’t hand my phone over to the police and remote wipe it with iCloud, for example. Destruction when handing to a mugger is still ok.

Well it wouldn't be the user destroying data. Judge: "Hand over that phone right now" You: "Sure, I can hand it over, but all data will then get wiped by the device automatically due to Google/Apple/Samsung's anti-theft design and I don't have a choice" After that it's upto the Judge whether to proceed with the handover or not. It will be the judge who destroyed the data if so.

Let me know how that goes for you if you ever have the unfortunate opportunity to try it.
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