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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#591

Post by saagarjha »

scarface74 wrote: post #353
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think this is one of the two points where the case against Apple's App Store model is the strongest. Not allowing applications to use third party in-app purchase systems is weakly defensible, but they not only don't allow that, they not only don't allow you to load an online store in a web view, they not only don't allow you to link to an online store that will open in Safari, the App Store terms literally do n…

Can I advertise in Walmart that they can buy the sane item cheaper from my own website?

Can you show up at Costco and prevent them from selling your products at a lower price than you do on your official website?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#592

Post by saagarjha »

sukilot wrote: post #68
spullara wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't have competition in a single ecosystem and have all those qualities because some consumers will be tricked into using some app store that looks legit and isn't. And as you point out, Android is a competitor and the Android stores compete with Apple's store. Just buy a different phone.

Apple is really good at reviewing apps. Why don't they review app store apps? Because they want to artificially suppress competition.

> Apple is really good at reviewing apps.

They're really not.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#593

Post by Terretta »

saagarjha wrote: post #589
chrisseaton wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do already do whatever you want with your phone from the point you receive it in the condition Apple sell it to you. But you cannot require that Apple do work to build support for third-party app stores. Property rights do not extend to forcing other people to do labour for you. If your phone doesn't come with support for third-party stores when you buy it then I don't see how it would be your right to have t…

Apple does work to prevent third-party app stores from being on their platform.

On the contrary, Apple does work to ensure users are protected from uncurated code. That incidentally challenges third party App Store models.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#594

Post by pwinnski »

ac29 wrote: post #504
pwinnski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have that a 10% fee is enough to operate the App Store at the scale Apple does? When the App Store was launched, Steve Jobs said they plan to run it at break-even, no profit, and for quite a few years that was exactly what they did. Now they are profiting from the App Store and clearly could continue to run it as they do on a lower percentage, but I don't think 10% is that number. If they could r…

I cant find any evidence in their financial reports of Apple breaking down sales and cost of sales for the App store in early years. I would be very, very surprised though if it was not profitable almost immediately (unless you creatively move around numbers and claim 100% of the iPhone's R&D was a cost of sale for the app store).

You are correct, I am taking their early claims at face value, but they never produced supporting numbers. I would be shocked if their claims weren't true, however.

Because of the lack of numbers, I'm not sure how long it was before running at break-even ceased to be a thing, though.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#595

Post by skuthus »

scarface74 wrote: post #367
wayneftw wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we make some laws that say they do then yeah they will have to.

And Tesla? Will they also have to allow third parties to “upgrade” their cars since many of the additional features are software controlled? Why stop there? Kindles? Roku sticks? WebOS TVs? TiVo’s? Cable boxes?

this sounds amazing - I want that

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#596

Post by mathnovice »

chrisseaton wrote: post #216
mathnovice wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple choose not to spend their time, money, and energy on supporting third-party app stores. Apple doesn't need to support third party app stores. Apple actively hinders them.

They'd have to write extra code compared to what they have now to do this, and then they've had to support that code. They don't want to. Why on earth should they want to spend time writing code to run other people's businesses that they aren't involved in. Do you require that McDonald's will sell you a Pepsi, when McDonald's want to sell you Coca-Cola? Do you demand that you should be allowed to set up a Pepsi store…

> They'd have to write extra code compared to what they have now to do this

How would they have to write extra code to support this? They already support 3rd party apps. Your analogies are bad.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#597

Post by hamstergene »

wvenable wrote: post #18
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

The problem isn't how they run their store -- the problem is that they are the only store.

If anyone could create their own store, someone would create a store that accepts anything with no review, no privacy and no security enforcements, making the whole idea of greenwalled platform pointless.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#598

Post by inopinatus »

zepto wrote: post #586
inopinatus wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways to provide safety interlocks for naive users that don't require bowdlerising the entire platform. What's more, Apple doesn't prevent those users entering payment card details into websites they reach by other means; this protection is patchy at best. Nor does it prevent apps using psychological tricks to maximise their revenue through the platform itself, e.g. as with many gambling and gaming apps. So…

People know the difference between the web and apps, and the whole point is that people trust in app purchase app purchases more than they do entering their card details into browsers. Clearly a browser that didn’t let you enter text would have been unacceptable and the iPhone would have failed as a product. On the other hand, it’s clear that Apple does actually see this as a serious problem, which is why ApplePay fo…

That’s a misrepresentation. The point is that they can achieve the same safety level for naive users without mandatory rules across permissible content in all applications. I can toggle privacy controls, for example, and manage advertising IDs, and relax (and strengthen) my online safety controls in many other aspects.

The web angle is simply demonstrating by contrast that the claim these hardline rules exist for online safety is horse shit. If they were prepared to irrevocably cripple one functional area for safety’s sake, why not another?

The answer is, because that was never the goal.

These rules are simply the protectionist use of market power, and by obliging other vendors to mislead consumers, become an abuse of market power.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#599

Post by manicdee »

admax88q wrote: post #585
manicdee wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to work on your ultimate phone environment as a hobby, there is Android. If you want things to work just the way they are with the fewest surprises and least amount of finagling use Apple. I use macOS instead of Linux for this reason: last time I tried updating the production packages on a Linux box it took me hours to clean up the mess that X11 left behind. Don’t criticise my walled garden just because y…

Whether a system "just works" or it requires finagling is or should be an orthogonal discussion to whether it respects you as a user. Its reasonable to ask for both.

My walled garden respects me as a user, but I am the kind of user the walled garden is maintained for.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#600

Post by manicdee »

toyg wrote: post #436
moogleii wrote: post #136

I'm guessing Apple's defense will be very similar to the author's own words, except a little less emotional: > Apple is using its monopoly to hold all of us hostage > Apple’s iOS controls 25% of the global smartphone market (the other 75%, is largely controlled by Google’s Android). This means that for over a billion people (particularly in the US where their market share approaches 50%), the only way to install apps…

25% market share is a misleading statistic. Since iPhones dominate the higher end of the market, where the real money flows, they actually make twice as much money as Google: https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-... . So it’s more like a 70% share, in practice.

One dollar, one vote!
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