SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#591

Post by learc83 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:37 AM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #584

learc83 wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many White, Black, and Hispanic families do the same thing. It's not denigrating that sacrifice to acknowledge that being born into cohesive, supportive family that values hard work is a privilege that many poor children do not have.

I guess we will have to disagree. When you are penalizing such efforts, you are most certainly denigrating them.

Harvard has need based scholarships. These need based scholarships directly reduce the amount of children of wealthy parents who get into Harvard.

Are need based scholarships denigrating the hard work of wealthy parents?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#592

Post by aj7 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:37 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #495

jdsully wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A one dimensional left/right view doesn't really explain our current politics very well. Factions in both parties have strong reasons to be against freedom of speech.

There is a very strong tribal/identity politics thing going on with both the left and the right in the US. Scares the hell out of me.

Yeah. People with brains should be more united.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#593

Post by jessaustin » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:38 AM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #391

darawk wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point is that it used to be that leftists defended freedom of speech from conservative oppression. Now it's the other way around.

Leftists aren't actually oppressing anybody. We're still under the rule of the far-right in the US (a country which does not actually have a left wing by Western standards). Voting with your dollar and pointing out bigotry and inequality is not oppression.

Leftists aren't, but Democratic Party partisans are. The difference is confusing to Americans.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#594

Post by kaitai » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:38 AM UTC

tropo wrote: post #541

kaitai wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what the US system of de jure discrimination against white and asian men consists of? Genuinely curious.

An example is the federal contracting rules that specifically require that some contracts be awarded to companies that are not run by white males. This of course is gamed. The common case for a small contractor is that a woman is officially running the business but her husband is really doing it. Large contractors subcontract out to these small contractors for no reason other than to fill quotas. It is often make-wor…

How does this hurt the guy running the show?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#595

Post by esyir » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:39 AM UTC

rifung wrote: post #509

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

> Equality of opportunity over outcome for me I'm also Asian American. This to me seems like it IS opportunity over outcome though. If you have two people who are equally hard working and one grows up in a disadvantaged environment, the latter going to score lower. My parents sacrificed a lot so I could go to a good school. It was completely obvious to see that not that hard working people at my school would do much…

Strong disagreement from me here. I believe that encouraging parents to invest in their children's growth is a good thing. Removing/reducing the benefit of this investment in the child is the kind of perverse incentive that's probably bad for society as a whole.

Simply put, parents are now forced to weigh the comparative benefit of a high-end university education over the child's development. I'm betting that diminishing returns on development investment will at some point encourage investment in gaming the adversity score instead.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#596

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:40 AM UTC

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #165

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

>I’m getting pushed further and further to the right. Maybe not, it feels like to me that the Overton window[0] has been sliding left. My views on freedom of speech made me a 'leftist commie' when I used them to defend South Park and Eminem now most often I'm accused being 'alt-right' by those who disagree with those same views. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

I'd describe the situation as being that the core beliefs of the political left in the United States have diverged sufficiently far from the core beliefs of liberalism (including freedom of speech) to the point that being a liberal no longer automatically implies membership in or sympathy for the left.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#597

Post by thrower123 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:42 AM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #588

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Your intact family sticking together for your childhood and making a sustained sacrifice for your benefit already represents several awesome advantages many, many, many kids will never enjoy. You didn't eat out much so... home cooked meals most nights? You lived in a good school district? You had parents and/or other family as a support structure for 12 years? You had a dad? Imagine having none of those things.

What is with this sentiment that we have to try to make people ashamed for doing things the right way and working hard?

Be proud of what you have accomplished. Fuck the people that want to tear you down because there's some poor wretch that "deserves" a shot more than you do.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#598

Post by Nition » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:42 AM UTC

svd4anything wrote: post #501

mgkimsal wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of my own intelligence and skill... Fuck anyone giving me points for things i didn't work for or that are outside my control... Your "intelligence" is definitely one of those things completely outside your control. What you've done with it is at least partially under your control, but you probably weren't born with any sort of brain disorder, for example. EDIT: adding on things like your visual appearance -…

So attractiveness adjustment score is also needed right? Physical traits have huge correlations and almost certainly causation to wealth and success. Tax credits for the ugly. Or maybe mandatory minor face disfigurement for the very beautiful. Hating the rich is hate. College board should use their zipcode model to provide free tutoring services instead of trying to punish Asian families who made sacrifices to live i…

Interesting demonstration of a possible Harrison Bergeron future that leads from here.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#599

Post by esyir » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:42 AM UTC

sadris wrote: post #556

serf wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that homogeneous distribution is something that occurs anywhere in society?

It occurs in most non-merit based social settings. 95% of all churches are 95% homogeneous. Racial groups self segregate at lunch tables. 85% of millennials don't have a single friend outside their own racial group. In merit based settings like employement, the employer is going to be selecting for IQ so the racial demographic of the employees is irrelevant, only their productivity.

So, controversial question here. Is there a racial divide by IQ then?

I'm not talking about the cause of this, whether genetic, cultural or others. But right now in the United States, is there a sizable IQ distribution difference across the various racial groups?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#600

Post by strken » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:43 AM UTC

mirrorlake wrote: post #476

grawprog wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I chose to learn the things i learned outside of school and to an extent the things i chose to learn in both high school and university. I didn't have to learn those things. I could have spent my time watching tv or doing other things. I know the things i know because i spent time and effort learning them.

Think about an extreme case: a hypothetical person who was born an autistic savant who is a musical genius. They sold out concert halls at age 9-10, playing the hardest classical music ever written. To what degree did they “earn” their skills and their genius? At a certain point you must agree that people are born with brains that are wired better, and they had no control over that. Effort should be rewarded, but luc…

If you stop rewarding "luck", where luck means inherent ability, then all the "lucky" people will voluntarily exile themselves into careers that are actually fun and which they can put maximum effort into, and stop working 8 to 6 designing hydroelectric power systems or writing biannual rice production forecasts or gently explaining how to write status update emails to software engineers.

Plus, to what extent is the capacity for hard work based on luck? If long hours give you clinical depression because you got 50 bad genes and experienced neglect as a child and lived in a house with lead paint, do you get sent to live in a slum with the rest of the "lazy" people?