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Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

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Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#591

Post by kngspook »

hesarenu wrote: post #568
blhack wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because lots of people still think that if you own a piece of hardware, you should be able to run whatever code you want on it.

With focus on privacy Apple successfully reducing users wanting freedom. The marketing now seems to indicate that if you want freedom then you loose privacy.

Yes. Because it is technically almost impossible, if not completely impossible, to build a system that gives your code absolute freedom while not giving other code running on the system absolute freedom as well.

There will always be the possibility that some company will ask users to their absolute freedom ability to give them absolute freedom. Which is basically exactly what happened in this case. The only difference is, in this case, Apple built in a mechanism where they can stop individual actors.

And, to protect their users, they used it.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#592

Post by kngspook »

emiliosic wrote: post #467
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you can. You just can’t do what you want with your _customer’s_ device, according to Apple’s TOS.

However you could get a developer license and load anything you want on your phone. Granted it's not for everybody, but if you're so incline to sideload apps on your phone you can pretend to be a developer (Meaning you just need to know enough to use the tools available, not in a demeaning way).

I don't think you even need a developer license. IIRC, I think if you just plug your iPhone into Xcode, you can load whatever code you want on to it.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#593

Post by tactwork »

ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #579
askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

I scraped google API exactly like this in grad school, but sometimes when you're building, you take a calculated risk to build something better. For my thesis, I was trying to load two Street View photos side by side in a browser to compare people's perceptions side-by-side. Google maps at the time required you to load a javascript viewer for each image you requested. Think Hot-or-Not for cities. The experience neede…

You're story is absolutely amazing...and relateable... Also love your app. Will be sharing that.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#594

Post by kngspook »

peteretep wrote: post #580
jmanderley wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook already got their access back, I assume the block on Google won't last all that long, either.

Presumably FB got it back after signing in blood that they were only going to use this for internal, non-public releases

I believe Apple will do everything they can to keep them from abusing the ToS, but I also believe Facebook will try to work around any and every restriction applied to them.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#595

Post by [deleted] »

tactwork wrote: post #593
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I scraped google API exactly like this in grad school, but sometimes when you're building, you take a calculated risk to build something better. For my thesis, I was trying to load two Street View photos side by side in a browser to compare people's perceptions side-by-side. Google maps at the time required you to load a javascript viewer for each image you requested. Think Hot-or-Not for cities. The experience neede…

You're story is absolutely amazing...and relateable... Also love your app. Will be sharing that.

[deleted]

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#596

Post by kngspook »

chii wrote: post #501
ken wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point may be valid, but it's not what this discussion is about. Apple didn't cut off a user for running unauthorized software on their iPhone. They cut off Google for using a paid enterprise service to distribute their software in violation of its TOS.

> paid enterprise service to distribute their software that's the problem - why should this service exist in the first place? It's extortion to have to pay to distribute apps to people who want them, on devices they own themselves.

Not really. Give me your code, and I can upload it on to any iPhone I want, without paying a cent to Apple.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#597

Post by saagarjha »

twtw wrote: post #547
saagarjha wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I recall they enabled the ability for anybody to load apps via Xcode around iOS 7 Xcode 7 and iOS 9, and yes, you can still do this.

I do it on iOS 8. Can't recall the Xcode version.

You sure about that? IIRC this came as part of the combined developer program in 2015.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#598

Post by kbenson »

Retric wrote: post #590
kbenson wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I'm a small operation. Surely they won't know." I wrote a server side screen scraper to load the Street View images and exposed the scraped images with an API. I find the trick, when you're worried about this, is to use the regular API normally, but save the data that comes in from the normal usage of the API. i.e. Use the Google maps viewer and after the image is loaded, grab it however you have to, and post it t…

Somone handing you data does not remove any copyrights on this data. Which is where you can get in real trouble with your approach. That said, this kind of thing is detectable. If users of an application are far less likely to download common data it quickly looks odd. And while that’s not conclusive, they can just look at how your application functions to see what’s going on.

> Somone handing you data does not remove any copyrights on this data.

Oh, I'm not making any claim that it's legal. I'm just noting that if you've decided you want to scrape and are disregarding the ToS, there are ways to make it less likely to get you blocked.

> That said, this kind of thing is detectable. If users of an application are far less likely to download common data it quickly looks odd.

In the approach I outlined, you either load the Google JS payload and use it entirely as normal (and just do something extra with the data it provides), or you don't load it at all and run entirely locally. There are things they can do, such as embed analytical code in their payload to test for certain things, but it's just a cat and mouse game at that point.

> And while that’s not conclusive, they can just look at how your application functions to see what’s going on.

Assuming it's a public application (in this case it is), and that they have reason to look at it. If it's just spiky load, where sometimes there is load and other times there isn't or it's less, that's not really indicative of something odd going on, especially if you're relatively small.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#599

Post by kngspook »

ajross wrote: post #339
seba_dos1 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. That's why you shouldn't buy iOS devices. If you do, you agree to Apple's terms. (also, what Apple allows you to run on your own device is actually a different story, not related to this news)

That's a misstatement of the principle here. I bought a thing. It's my thing, not someone else's thing. Things don't have "terms". I signed no contract. Let me use my thing. I mean, yes, we shouldn't buy iOS devices. But we should accept that things have ad hoc vendor-controlled "rules" just because someone baked them into the things, either. > what Apple allows you to run on your own device is actually a different s…

> Things don't have "terms".

Sure they do. You want a gun? That comes with certain restrictions on what you can do with it. You want a car? There are certain restrictions on what you can do with it. Jet? Restrictions. Schedule 1 drugs? Restrictions. Knives? Restrictions. Fireworks? Restrictions. Cameras? Restrictions. Hell, even when it comes to a 2x4, there are rules about what you can and can't do with it -- you can't hit someone with it, or you'll suffer consequences.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#600

Post by kngspook »

ajross wrote: post #474
seba_dos1 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I signed no contract. Facebook and Google did sign it and distributed their software based on it. > It's not like Facebook and Google were hacking their way in here. They literally did (in the legal sense). But of course, it's a battle of two evils here. Both sides can just nuke each other if you ask me, I won't miss them ;)

> Facebook and Google did sign it and distributed their software based on it. I think we're talking past each other here. I'm not talking about how Facebook and Google's spy kits were licensed to the end users or about their compliance with Apple's own vendor license. I was pointing out that the principle here is that I (and Facebook and Google) should have the ability to write and distribute software for you (and me…

You can. Just give people the code, and they can load it on their device.
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