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Subscription Hell

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Re: Subscription Hell

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it works in software that many of us use every day. Once again, there's more nuance to making an argument than being able to point out a single absolute example. Why is this such popular rhetoric on HN? Especially in such a varied imprecise world of pricing structures? I use various bits of successful software like Transmit and Alfred that let you update until the next major version in which you must pay ag…

It "works" in the way that having insecure software on your computer "works" which is to say that it doesn't work, we just put up with computers where the non-technical don't know the mess they are in. Every major operating system (iOS, Android, Windows, QNX) or widely used software application (MS Office, any browser, any widely used app) issues emergency security patches. The reality is that having everyone on the…

I don't need a secure MSpaint.

Now you do you, and I'll use Goldwave v4.0 for basic audio edits - exactly the same tool I used in 2000, one that works well and I never had to re-learn.

I despise tools that capriciously change in my hands. Extra "security" is not worth the productivity hit.

Again, Internet connectivity isn't my default. Dropbox can handle that, and that software gets all the updates. The tools I use to make stuff I put in Dropbox better all be offline and never changing unless I say so.

That applies to the office suite, DAW, graphics editor, etc. I haven't seen anything their online features could give except a cloud lock-in.

You may value extra security, often necessitated by the very virtue of the software being online. And I value the ability to use without having to think about whether the signal is strong and my card payments went through.

The reality is that the interests of the users are often not aligned with the interests of software vendors.

Re: Subscription Hell

#592
I'm torn when it comes to subscriptions. Things that come to mind:

- For some products with high upfront costs, it makes them more accessible for learning, etc. ($10/mo for Photoshop vs. hundreds). Though, I've moved to one-time-fee Affinity suite of software now. However, for students and others with low-income that want/need to learn software like Photoshop, this opens up some options without having to go the piracy route

- At some point I think it gets expensive fast, where we're shelling out a lot per month for just a few services. This is good and bad. When there's a lot of useful things out there, it can feel like it's just adding up to too much. I think it may prohibit being able to use a wider variety of paid products (especially when you paid once for something that now wants a subscription). However, maybe this will help us use more discretion in the subscriptions we choose, instead of subscribing to crap or things we never use anyway. Not sure how much of "subscription fatigue" is a problem or just a unfound worry

- All this said, I'm still somewhat of a "I need to own X, not rent it" old-man-yells-at-cloud kind of person. I prefer to own music instead of using streaming services and so forth. It mostly comes down to personal and philosophical preference. I don't always like ceding control to the entity I am paying, when I could "own" the product instead. I tried streaming music for a while, but then here and there, artists/albums/labels would no longer be accessible due to a contract issue with Spotify/etc. I don't want to cede that level of control. When I own music I can download the MP3s, put them on a usb drive and listen in my car, etc. instead of hoping Spotify's DRM isn't going to screw my library.

- When it comes to online publishers, I just do not get enough value from them to subscribe, and I only view an occasional article, when linked from a site like HN. But because of security, privacy, and performance, I block ads. Not sure what the golden "fix" is for this industry, or at least what my part in it would be.

Re: Subscription Hell

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From looking at it, it seems like it's active only on a really tiny number of sites.

If I understand you correctly that means you'd pay but get ads anyway on most pages? That would explain why it didn't succeed. In fact it would seem like it was rigged to fail which wouldn't surprise me as both Google and Facebook seems to prefer ad revenue over payments.

> both Google and Facebook seems to prefer ad revenue over payments.

This is exactly the kind of conspiracy-theory mindset I was talking about in my upthread comment. What reason could they have for preferring ads, given the extra risks (esp legislative) and PR issues associated with it?

As I said, Google (I can't personally speak to Facebook) has put effort behind getting micropayments off the ground in a couple different formats, but there're substantial hurdles and substantial pushback on the part of publishers. The fact that they're not jeopardizing existing revenue by forcing pubs to do things they don't want to doesn't mean that they prefer advertising revenue per se.

Re: Subscription Hell

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are hundreds (thousands?) of commercial content-heavy websites that continually track engagement metrics and A/B test design differences all the time, and virtually every single one of them has chosen to bet their collective livelihoods on richer and more interactive media.

A/B testing is a form of markov-chain-monte-carlo experimentation that makes certain assumptions about the landscape it is trying to find the maximum likelihood in. Specifically, it makes the assumption of monotonicity of the likelihood or that the lack of monotonicity is of the same scale as the changes they are likely to make. A/B testing cannot break out of a local maximum of the likelihood function if the assumpt…

Sure, but you’re implying something super weird, namely that there’s a global maximum of engagement at the “text and CSS” extreme end of the spectrum, but as soon as you add any multimedia at all, even a single img tag, there’s a discontinuous drop and then the metrics improve the more and more you add even more multimedia.

Re: Subscription Hell

#595
Amazon Prime is the right idea long-term. Get people to sign on for one anchor subscription (free shipping) and then add other ancillary subscriptions over time. I assume somebody at AMZN right now is looking into adding all-you-can-eat access to newspapers, magazines, software, etc. as part of the Prime subscription.

Re: Subscription Hell

#597
post #596

After reading such many comments, feel the problem is not about Subscription this model; instead, it's about pricing.

And the Subscription model can't be a replacement for one-time paid in software. It should be better to be combined with freemium.

Re: Subscription Hell

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand you correctly that means you'd pay but get ads anyway on most pages? That would explain why it didn't succeed. In fact it would seem like it was rigged to fail which wouldn't surprise me as both Google and Facebook seems to prefer ad revenue over payments.

> both Google and Facebook seems to prefer ad revenue over payments. This is exactly the kind of conspiracy-theory mindset I was talking about in my upthread comment. What reason could they have for preferring ads, given the extra risks (esp legislative) and PR issues associated with it? As I said, Google (I can't personally speak to Facebook) has put effort behind getting micropayments off the ground in a couple dif…

Thanks for your reply. It was really interesting.

> This is exactly the kind of conspiracy-theory mindset I was talking about in my upthread comment.

This is however unneccessary IMO. Im referring to observed behaviour. I might be wrong but calling it a conspiracy-theory mindset doesn't help.

> What reason could they have for preferring ads, given the extra risks (esp legislative) and PR issues associated with it?

I don't know but if I had to guess Googles infrastructure and organization is heavily optimized for it.

> As I said, Google (I can't personally speak to Facebook) has put effort behind getting micropayments off the ground in a couple different formats, but there're substantial hurdles and substantial pushback on the part of publishers.

Ok, so now we are finally talking.

So the reason I couldn't "buy the ad spots" and sponsor writers of tech blogs (and here I'm referring to personal blogs, not news outlets dressed up as one) was because "publishers"?

Do we really think blog owners with google ads would complain if parts of their revenue came from users who hadn't had to suffer ads?

I can see one issue here and that is a lot of sites would probably try double dipping by trying to install a second ad network.

I'm honest but a bit annoyed here: I guess it is because Google used to be focused on creating good products for me but now it is about whatever publishers want.

Edit: also this doesn't explain Google's hesitation to introduce Youtube red, does it? Or are publishers also active in deciding what Google does on their own properties too?

Re: Subscription Hell

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never became more expensive. They were extremely expensive to begin with and now they’re a lot cheaper. Previously it was like 500€ or so? That's too much for the casual user as well. Here’s the reality. I used to pirate Adobe software because there was no way I was going to pay 1500k or whatever Photoshop was. Adobe got $0 from me. Now I subscribe to get access to Photoshop. Adobe now gets £100 from me a year.…

they are way way more expensive now. I only upgraded every other version so $199 every 4 years or $50 a year. current Photoshop subscriptions is $239 a year or nearly 5x the price

Where are you getting your prices? I never remember being able to buy photoshop for $199. I remember it more like $600+. And the website shows $120 annually and that includes Photoshop AND lightroom AND 20GB of cloud storage.

If you need more than just photoshop, the deal is even better.

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

Re: Subscription Hell

#600
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $199 upgrades were only after the initial PS purchase price of $699. The PS-only subscription is $9.99 a month. The $239 a year one "Includes 100GB of cloud storage, your own portfolio website, premium fonts, and social media tools". It is way cheaper now unless you go 5+ years without upgrades.

I wouldn't put any value to those perks. The average use of that 100GB storage is likely to be a very small fraction of that and all will cost pennies or less for Adobe to provide. Yes, if you just so happen to be in the market for all of those it would cost you some amount to source them independently. But the trend of bundling low-cost tangential services as a pricing defence strikes me as rather cynical.

You skipped over the meat of his post. If you don't need those extras, you can get photoshop AND lightroom for $9.99 a month. So you are getting it cheaper than you ever could.
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