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The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

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Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#591
post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please stop posting personally condescending remarks toward people you disagree with? Regardless of how wrong they are, or seem, you're degrading the quality of the site by doing this. Admittedly there is a whole lot of degrading going on in the current conflagration, but you've done this a whole bunch of times and it's definitely not helping.

Ok, I shall try to adopt a turn-the-other-cheek approach going forward. I am somewhat curious why you've singled me out though, considering the specifics of the conversations I'm involved in.

Thanks—that's just the approach we're hoping for.

If you're thinking it might be because we secretly disagree with you, I assure you that (sadly for us) everyone always thinks this. It's an artifact of randomness: we see a mostly-random sample of the comments here, since there are far too many for us to read. HN's moderation principles are consistent, but because of this quantity it's impossible to apply them across the entire corpus of posts, so you're always going to see examples of people getting away with worse in the neighborhood.

Also, I post most of these moderation comments and happen to have been dealing with an extraneous emergency (two in fact) during the exact period of the recent flamewar hurricane. Them's the breaks. Am ramping back to normal now, so the moderation comments will soon be thicker and faster.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#592
post #273
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

Inferiority nor superiority was argued. So, quite frankly, this doesn't fall into this category. You can admit to a difference without falling privy to pseudo-science. Men and women's brains are structurally and chemically different as is each individual's unique brain. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that this manifests itself in real-world observable differences. Misapplying a wikipedia link brings…

You'd maybe hire him, but would you expect a team that consists of at least a few women to work with him? That's the point here, I think. He's made it impossible for some people(at his position or higher) to work with him, and that makes it an easy choice to fire him.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I disagree with somebody, I can grab a megaphone and shout in their face, hit them, or try to start a civilized discussion. If I'm not mistaken, he was fired for breaching the company's civil code of conduct. That's different than being fired for an idea. If I started onto my company's social intranet and posted essays citing references about why something should change, I'd probably face equal back lash because i…

> he was fired for breaching the company's civil code of conduct. We've yet to hear details of what this really mean, and if this CoC is applied fairly. It sounds like the violation i a) based on a particular interpretation of the memo, or b) based on the subjective offense of other employees. This sounds like the "cultural fit" loophole of the left. > That's different than being fired for an idea Is it? Have all the…

> There are plenty liberal/left essays floating about the google intranets, this is not you average employer.

Yeah, but do they call a third of their coworkers incompetent?

It's not the fact that it's an opinion piece, it's that it's a very tactless way of approaching the situation. I'm not defending the leaker here, but once it did get leaked, there really was little the company could do to keep him a productive member of the workforce.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#594

Anyone who wants to use "science" in this way needs to read "The Golem" by prominent sociologists of science Collins and Pinch. It's a short, enjoyable read. One of the things you'll learn is that science can only ask the questions humans want to ask, and science often says exactly what people want it to say. https://www.amazon.com/Golem-Should-About-Science-Classics/d... ; online link: http://cstpr.colorado.edu/stud…

Thanks for the piece. Sadly never came across it.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in no way an absurd question. Google is not selecting their employees at random. Google is not promoting people at random. Google is not placing employees in a neutral environment relative to the rest of the population. Google is not providing neutral support to employees relative to the general population. There is no reason to expect that their subset of the population should conform to a general population s…

>There is no reason to expect that their subset of the population should conform to a general population skew. Absurd. Differences in the general population will translate into differences in the number of men that pursue CS and related fields, which will affect the gender composition of the applicant pool that Google recruits from. >Can you point to my dogmatic position? The dogma is in you ignoring and denying basi…

Ok, since we asked you to stop doing this ideological boilerplate thing and you've repeatedly ignored us, we've banned this latest account. Would you please not create accounts to abuse Hacker News with?

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What astonishes me is that Google's VP of Diversity knows so little about the underlying science of her vocation that she confused statements of clinical fact (with the science even referenced in footnotes!) with personal attacks on women.

The fact that you equate a few studies with "clinical fact" shows you do not understand how science works. http://retractionwatch.com

The Big-5 aka OCEAN model (openness / conscientiousness / extroversion / agreeability / neuroticism) constitutes the most scientifically accepted framework for measuring personality. It is confirmed by decades of work and massive amounts of large-n survey research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

One of the major giveaways that the Diversity VP at Google is incompetent came when she criticized the author for attacking women simply because he used the terms "conscientiousness" and "agreeability" and "neuroticism". You are not doing much better by insinuating that science can only be correct when it supports your ideological position.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#597
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant to respond to the response someone else made: It's not a debate to be won. Some people just keep insisting it is with this cloying, sweaty desperation. It's embarrassing, and it's awful that these Silicon Valley ghouls have so much power that we have to consider them at all. I read the article, it didn't have any real science and made a bunch of insane, half-baked assumptions. The guy is a dumbass and deserve…

In other words, you're the only sane one in this world full of crazy, stupid, sweaty, sexists, and you have every right to shut them up. Sounds like a scary place to be, and I'm genuinely sorry you find yourself there.

Personal attacks aren't allowed on HN, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you think they are. Please don't post like this again.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#598
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, you're the only sane one in this world full of crazy, stupid, sweaty, sexists, and you have every right to shut them up. Sounds like a scary place to be, and I'm genuinely sorry you find yourself there.

Most people don't agree with the contents of the memo, or it's conclusion. But HN is filled with a specific breed of pseudo-intellectual that I will happily poke fun at whenever possible.

Isn't pseudo-intellectual a middlebrow term in its own right? In any case, commenters who use HN to posture over the rest of the HN community strike a rather silly pose. I hear Twitter is the place to do that for serious.

(I believe we already told you this elsewhere, but) you've been posting such ideological flamebait to HN that your comments amount to trolling whether you mean them to or not. This isn't a question of how right or wrong you are—plenty of your fellow community members are arguing the same positions as you without violating the spirit of this site. If you'd like to participate in thoughtful discussion, you're welcome to keep commenting here. Kindly fix this?

Admittedly these trainwreck threads have been pretty thin on thoughtful discussion, but even so, several of your posts stand out as poisonous.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#600
post #158

Welcome to the left. Where we are democratic, and suport free-speech, as long as agrees with our views. :)

Yeah that is what I immediately recognized. The tell tale pattern of the liberal left eating itself. Between evergreen college and even UCB and now this the left is literally eating itself and turning on everything they said they stood for to the point of comical absurdity.

Would you please not post ideological boilerplate to HN? Regardless of which ideology is your favorite.

We're trying for a higher quality of discussion here (though admittedly this has been hard to observe lately).

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