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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#581

Post by Zigurd »

crassus wrote: post #408
HillRat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

This is exactly how opinion worked in East Germany. You didn't have to be a communist, but if you weren't you would never work again. We have the exact same protection for political expression as East Germany. That's freedom? "The Lives of Others" was a warning, not an instruction manual.

That's not analogous. Brendan Eich materially supported a current threat to freedom. A few decades ago it would be as if you were writing checks to an anti-miscegenation organization. At time, plenty of people would have said "What's the big deal? It's a valid opinion." and yet it is just as clear that's wrong.

Plenty of people on this forum have radical political philosophies, ranging from anarcho-capitalist to communist. Some of them are probably far more radical than Brendan Eich, who might be utterly mild in his politics otherwise. And yet because they are not speaking out against individual rights, all these bomb-throwing radicals coexist.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#582

Post by peterashford »

forgottenpass wrote: post #427
MrZongle2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All he had to do was lie" This speaks volumes.

I would have agreed years ago, but consider me jaded. All it says to me is "Yep, you're reading Hacker News."

Thank you for saying so. I find the moral compass of a lot of HN posters rather baffling sometimes. Nice to know I'm not the only one :o)

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#584

Post by macspoofing »

gum_ina_package wrote: post #561
macspoofing wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, those that didn't agree with those views were free to boycott and criticize Mozilla. Mozilla Foundation was also free to live with those consequences or decide that they didn't want their brand to be associated or muddled by its CEO's accidentally public position on a very sensitive topic. My view: It's a shame that Eich decided to stand his ground on this issue. It's a real shame that he felt so s…

More important than his morality and/or religious views?

Yes, it's a real shame that he sees support for gay-marriage as an affront to his moral or religious values.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#585

Post by acomjean »

pbiggar wrote: post #310
haberman wrote: post #156

Really torn about this. On one hand it seemed pretty clear that Brendan was not letting these views carry over into his professional life. On the other hand, using his power (in this case, money) to actively stand against equality makes him, in my mind, an active and willing participant in the overall power structure that denies and marginalizes gay people. If I were gay I can imagine that being a bitter pill to swal…

Congrats, this is possibly the best comment in the entire thread. Issues like this are rarely black and white, and this is grayer than most. As a former Mozillian, I'm frustrated that a great person to lead Mozilla held such destructive views about other human beings. Brendan is, in my limited interactions with him, a wonderful person who has done great things. It's very difficult to know how to combine that with the…

I spent a lot of time on construction sites doing inspections early in my career. It was hard to fathom some really you got to know as really nice people being really bigoted. Weirder when the targets of those comments worked with the person making the comments.

Archie Bunker is truer to real life than I had possibly imagined.

I think this will be best for Mozilla. Its an organization that needs the good will.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#587

Post by tdicola »

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I don't agree that he was bullied out of his position. He held a belief that wasn't in line with what the Mozilla organization believes is in their best interests. The most logical thing would be for him to not represent the company as the CEO anymore. It's no different than if he believed Firefox should be a closed source shrink-wrapped product or other view that is contrary to Mozilla's mission.

edit: The statement from Mozilla even says "Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech." Eich's views were contrary to this mission, so him leading the company made no sense at all.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#588

Post by simon_ »

To summarize a sentiment I see underlying some of the "conservative" positions on HN on Eich: all of us who are pro gay marriage (me very much included[0]) might want to think pretty carefully about the political culture we want to create.

Regardless of how exceptional and crystal-clear this moral issue is, if we accept personal attacks against political opponents, we are clearly "upping the ante" and creating a huge chilling effect against honest dialogue. Somewhere in the vicinity of 50% of the US holds the immoral view here, and if we believe they deserve shunning and serious personal consequences, then we are... well, pretty aggressive.

Even if aggression is warranted, are we sure we want a culture tolerant of this much political aggression? You might be in the wrong 50% next time, and unfortunately there may not be a way to create a culture tolerant of aggression only by those who are morally right / agree with us.

Clearly none of Eich's fundamental rights are violated here, but that still doesn't mean we should want to "go there".

[0] You can see from the very high volume of statements like this how scared people are to be associated with the wrong side here.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#589

Post by chc »

Crito wrote: post #252
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Nobodies' right to have different viewpoints is being taken away. Nobodies' right to donate to political causes is being taken away. The only people in this entire story that were/are trying to take away the rights of others were the people who pushed for Prop 8. The right to support legislation like Prop 8 remains intact. The right to not be criticized by others for doing so has never existed in the first place. The…

> He remains free to be a CEO.

Given the content of the OP, this is demonstrably untrue. He attempted to be a CEO and was effectively prevented from doing so.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#590

Post by opendais »

jbooth wrote: post #406
HillRat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

To piggyback, there's an additional difference between being a public-facing CEO of, say, McDonald's, Exxon or Apple, and being the public-facing CEO of a non-profit which exists due to the donations of primarily liberal and libertarian internet people. The prior case might cost them a little revenue due to boycotts but if the person's effective, you can make a case for 'private views' and 'shareholder value'. When y…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation#Financing

Pretty sure that is incorrect.

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