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What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

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Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#581

Post by protomyth »

eyko wrote: post #558
keeperofdakeys wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the sed regex does not support stuff like + Are you talking about BSD sed here, because GNU sed does support + with the -r flag.

And nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that to run this script you'll need to install node and npm (although you can argue that node comes with npm, but anyway…). You might as well just install GNU sed in BSD if that's the problem. Also, I believe GNU sed is much faster than any javascript script. Moreover, if you want to use this as part of your node app, then it's a good reason to reimplement some of sed's fun…

"You might as well just install GNU sed in BSD if that's the problem"

Often not possible depending on what authorizations and hosting you have.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#582

Post by talmand »

web007 wrote: post #369
doktrin wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does he even mean by saying that he doesn't "want to build my app" on top of harthur's code? Nobody asked him to I can't speak for him, but based on another comment further down ("I'll be over here in not-node"), it read like a dig at Node itself by proxy / extension. > Yes, let's take the opportunity to condescendingly insult their mental competency. Indeed. This type of behavior is almost never justified, bu…

I might be an emotionless robot or something, but I don't get the furore over this. Everyone writes crap code sometimes (viz. github.com/007 aka craptown USA). Just because you are "exceedingly talented" or have "well-used" projects doesn't mean everything you write is rainbows and unicorns. If your project is useful to you, then screw everyone else - why care what they think? https://github.com/harthur/kittydar is u…

But it seems that complaints against the replace code wasn't about the code itself. It seems it's more about the fact that it isn't sed, that it's javascript, that it's node, and that they themselves would choose not to use it. For all those reasons they chose to publicly criticize the project in what can be considered a demeaning way. For an "open" source community, that's a bad thing and deserves this furor. In fact, it should happen more often than it does.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#583

Post by columbo »

donohoe wrote: post #533
nollidge wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's David Cramer's notpology: http://justcramer.com/2013/01/24/being-wrong-on-the-internet...

Hate to say it but I think his post is fair and to the point. You don't have to like what he said but he puts it in context and within the realm of Twitter - a 140 limited space of communication. His original tweet was "Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse?". Really. Can we not be critical on the internet any more? And here is EVERYONE saying worse things about him in the comments!? Go look in the mirror people. I'l…

> Really. Can we not be critical on the internet any more?

I think that's a vast oversimplification.

I actually don't think this has ANYTHING TO DO WITH CODE. Anyone can walk into a subway restaurant, ask for a sandwich, take pictures of the people who made the sandwich, tweet their pictures laughing at how stupid they are and what a shitty job they did making your sandwich. You can do that to waiters, barstaff, cleaners, you can do that to anyone... but it makes you an asshole.

If you find yourself pulling up individual repos with I have a ton of files on github and gist, most of them are absolute crap. I put them out there on the off chance someone happens by a similar issue/problem they might find something useful.

This morning there was a gist I was reading, and yeah it was mostly rubbish but it had the one line of code I was looking for.

That behavior needs to be encouraged by more people. We need to encourage people to put out their code and not delete it. Regardless of if it is crap.

If you see something picking up momentum with a growing base of users that you disagree with then by all means start raising the alarms; create a blog discussing the downside of using process X (examples of X could be nosql, sql, node, coffeescript, python, java, grails, groovy, haskell, go, maven, ant, gradle, etc etc)

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#584

Post by mikecane »

dos1 wrote: post #527
nollidge wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's David Cramer's notpology: http://justcramer.com/2013/01/24/being-wrong-on-the-internet...

Wow, David Cramer is a total asshole! That Steve Klabnik guy is also an asshole. The only one who doesn't appear to a complete dick is Corey Haines, whose apology was better. Not great, but better. Here's the thing - if you ever even consider saying things like this to someone on the internet, you're an asshole. It's not a one time accidental thing. Nope, it's in your personality. I hope I never meet either of these…

>>>and what separates people is how they deal with it.

That.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#585

Post by chaostheory »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #565
dos1 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't merely say the project "wasn't good", he implied it in a snarky, very unconstructive way. Here's his quote from twitter: > Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse? http://github.com/harthur/replace In the world I live in, that's called being an asshole. Look, I'm not saying these guys should apologize (in fact, if this is how they apologize it's probably best they don't), I'm simply stating that they're dicks…

It shouldn't matter if it's unconstructive. He's not talking to the author of the code. I still don't see how being snarky, or god forbid considering being snarky, makes you an asshole. It's just some code; he's not insulting anybody.

Insulting someone's code is like insulting someone's kid. The guy probably feels he put a lot of thought and hard work into it. It's not that hard to give constructive feedback as opposed to being an asshole.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#586

Post by thaumaturgy »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #241
pg wrote: post #175

Maybe before we spend a lot of time complaining about how federal prosecutors are unsympathetic assholes, we should start by examining our own community.

Death, prison, and felony convictions are not the same as public ridicule and hurt feelings. Only a nazi would equate such things. What?

HN's collective reading comprehension seems to have dipped lately. Fortunately, pg is usually concise enough that we can use this as an exercise:

"Maybe before..."

"before" merely implies order. It does not mean "instead of". It means, "this first, then that."

"...federal prosecutors are unsympathetic assholes..."

The subject here is not jail sentences or felony convictions or legal antics. The subject here is sympathy. For example, a statement made on HN which would fit pg's subject is, "federal prosecutors had no sympathy for...".

"...we should start by examining our own community."

The implication here is that our own community is also often unsympathetic and full of assholish behavior.

pg was not comparing public ridicule and hurt feelings to death, prison, or felony convictions. He was only suggesting that one of the complaints here over Aaron's case has been that the prosecutors were "unsympathetic", even though our own community is also unsympathetic.

I have no idea how you could have misinterpreted a single statement of 24 words that badly.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#587

Post by randiSP »

mrb wrote: post #200

Heather, I agree that people are unnecessarily rude to you. Don't sob. Your code shows you are already a more capable programmer than most of the ones I interview. No one has given you a clear answer as to why your code is reinventing the wheel, so allow me to do it politely. I took every single example from your README, and show you below how everything can be reimplemented with sed -r (nice extended regex syntax, m…

I've been working in software companies for a few years and I could say that something like this "replace" application is pretty much useful:

- Node.js can be installed on Windows and sed/find are not available on this platform.

- Many of my coworkers don't understand sed/find syntax, and even if they could learn it, they don't have plenty of time.

Btw, it's terrible that a few guys make rude comments about a free and open source software. If you don't like, don't use it or if you think you can make it better, fork it or shut up.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#588

Post by protomyth »

akkartik wrote: post #182
anthonyb wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dressing down someone like that on a public mailing list is absolutely picking on them. It's not an argument, and is basically no different to the behaviour here.

It is basically worlds opposite to the behavior here. a. Linus uses swear words. Steve Klabnik used none. b. Linus provides substantive criticism. Even if you need flame-retardant underwear to hear it. c. Linus never ever ridicules outsiders. So what do the two have in common, again? I loved the mauro thread because you're seeing Linus talking to an insider of an influential project and tell him that the relative out…

"Linus never ever ridicules outsiders."

That's actually not true. His "security monkey" references towards other projects being an example.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#589

Post by lucisferre »

tptacek wrote: post #221
mrb wrote: post #200

Heather, I agree that people are unnecessarily rude to you. Don't sob. Your code shows you are already a more capable programmer than most of the ones I interview. No one has given you a clear answer as to why your code is reinventing the wheel, so allow me to do it politely. I took every single example from your README, and show you below how everything can be reimplemented with sed -r (nice extended regex syntax, m…

I've been coding since 1993 and I have never made room in my brain for stuff like -print0. Moreover, there are times when you'll want to do this stuff from within another program. What are you going to do, shell out to a find(1) pipeline? Then people like me will be giving you shit. There's nothing wrong with rewriting sed in Javascript.

Yeah, when I first saw this project I didn't get the big deal with why it was so bad. Something I might of done if I could have found the time. It probably made doing something easier for a time. I've also never liked using sed much and pretty much have to re-read the man-page and google around a bit almost every time I have to use it again, because I just can't be assed to remember how it works.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#590

Post by chaostheory »

calinet6 wrote: post #535
nollidge wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's David Cramer's notpology: http://justcramer.com/2013/01/24/being-wrong-on-the-internet...

This is bound to be an unpopular opinion, but why exactly does anyone have to apologize? He's absolutely right. Criticism comes from every corner, especially in the software world. Your code stands for itself. Simple as that. And I tell this to almost every programmer I work with at some point or another. If they have an emotional response to a code review, or criticism of any kind—"Code is never personal. Whatever I…

> Code is never personal. Whatever I say about your code has nothing to do with you.

Maybe this is fine for psychopaths, economists, or machines that can eventually understand the criticism one day, but for normal people it doesn't apply. Someone's code is like someone's child.

It's great and I'd say necessary to use constructive criticism, but I just don't see the need to bully and make fun of people.

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