Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

blog.senko.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 593 posts

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#581

Post by dusted »

I think the author mistook the phrase a bit.. and there's nothing to be insulted about either.. "Coding was never the hard part" does not say coding is easy.. but that, in the context where this phrase is used, there are other things that are harder than coding. So, if you have some parts, and must pick THE hard part, then coding is not it.

And honestly, I agree. There are more people who can write code, than who cannot. But among those who can write code, there are fewer that can build large, consistent, well-performing systems, or modify them while keeping them elegant.

There are even fewer that can architect them or comprehend the nuances of that architecture.

So, yes. It may be difficult to write code, but that difficult task often exists in a wider context, where even identifying what to write, and where, is orders of magnitude harder, and, it often requires you to not just be able to write code, but to read code very well, indeed well enough to build an internal model of the system which aligns enough with reality that you can decide where, what and HOW to write the code that must be written. And even harder to find the piece of code to delete instead of writing it, to fix the bug or achieve the desired result.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#582

Post by daymanstep »

dusted wrote: post #581

I think the author mistook the phrase a bit.. and there's nothing to be insulted about either.. "Coding was never the hard part" does not say coding is easy.. but that, in the context where this phrase is used, there are other things that are harder than coding. So, if you have some parts, and must pick THE hard part, then coding is not it. And honestly, I agree. There are more people who can write code, than who can…

> There are more people who can write code, than who cannot.

Are you serious?

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#583

Post by RaftPeople »

kcexn wrote: post #465
pjmlp wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the countries where Engineering is a professional title and not something people decide to call themselves, we still know the difference.

In which countries are Software Engineers not allowed to call themselves engineers unless they are professionally qualified engineers?

> In which countries are Software Engineers not allowed to call themselves engineers unless they are professionally qualified engineers?

I think a better question is: what is the criteria those countries use to determine if someone can use the engineer title?

In general the software industry is still in an early confused state about standards, approaches, skills, etc.

Should we be using functional techniques? Object? Both? Relational? Column store? Push? Pull? etc.

The number of ways to build a working system is enormous and we have a fad-of-the-month every 5 years which starts as a silver bullet and always settles down to be just another option for another set of use cases.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#584

Post by bluegatty »

vaylian wrote: post #567
bluegatty wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"wear additional, invisible hats " No ... those are not invisible hats ... those are the real hats . Software is 'Knowledge Distillation' the code is the hieroglyphic artifacts. Engineers Engineer, Scribes Scribe. Just so happens developers do their own scribing.

They are real invisible hats. Those hats are invisible to outsiders, who don't understand that programmers do much more than just entering code on a computer.

a shocking number of devs don't describe their jobs that way either.

people who self learn will tend to focus on the code not the proecess

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#586

Post by a9i »

pjmlp wrote: post #470
a9i wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Italy: https://www.cni.it/en/engineers-in-italy

I see there that you also created a workaround for the Bologna changes like we did, the 5 versus 3 years.

The European Council of Engineers Chambers is seeking to standardise training programmes, beginning with the civil engineering sector: https://www.ecec.net/what-we-do/common-training-framework/. Hopefully, this convergence will extend to other engineering professions.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#587

Post by tsoukase »

brabel wrote: post #444
tsoukase wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every language has it's specific difficulties as foreign, the French pronunciation, the Spanish speed, the Chinese ... well leave it. The English has the "easiest difficulty" among all: phrasal verbs, which are of moderate importance and can mostly be avoided.

The hardest part of learning English is the random way words are pronounced without almost any regard for their spelling.

This property is not so hard to learn and has some advantages, especially in oral form. For example for the words though, tough, through, throw it's easier to learn their pronunciation than their meaning, as well as the multiple meanings of set down, throw off, pull up, bring around, get on, go over. English is a foreign language for me though.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#588

Post by buran77 »

geon wrote: post #568
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waterfall works as well as the person implementing it, which is to say it is a human process and vulnerable to typical human flaws. I have used waterfall for decades to ship millions of dollars worth of software. If you don't want it to work it won't work.

You actually planned everything in advance, and didn't have to go back and correct mistakes ? Because if you ever go back a step, it is no longer the waterfall model, but an iterative process.

> Because if you ever go back a step, it is no longer the waterfall model

By this definition there has never been a waterfall project. They all need to correct, adapt, or redo something.

Look, I think I get your point but you seem too stuck in some formal definition riveted with assumptions to understand the other side. If you build a house you can correct some things after the fact. You forgot a power outlet or a light fixture? You need to move or resize a window? Probably fine and even decently low effort. You realize your foundation is too thin or too small? You forgot about one room? You put the bathroom on the wrong side of the house? Not so fine and definitely not low effort.

The state of software development is so bad because so many devs just jump head first into writing code and in the end they deliver a pile of barely held together shiny bits that technically works but is a pain to modify, extend, maintain, secure, extract the expected performance, etc. All because there are 100 brick layers and not one architect or engineer on the team.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#589

Post by twister2920 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #542
twister2920 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They already do that, hence the SaaSpocalypse The market believes they will do that, hence the SaaSpocalypse. very important difference

No they already do do that. I know many companies building internal tools with LLMs.

sure, does your dad also work at Nintendo?

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#590

Post by satvikpendem »

twister2920 wrote: post #589
satvikpendem wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they already do do that. I know many companies building internal tools with LLMs.

sure, does your dad also work at Nintendo?

One is verifiable, if you don't believe maybe you should ask others in the field too. Or maybe you're just wrong and won't admit it, clutching to your preconceived notions.
Post reply on HN