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The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

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Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#581

Post by Varelion »

I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another.

In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it.

I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship. But, at this point, I have come to wonder it it would be best to always have your real-life personality attached to all you do. At least to any action that feeds an algorithm or creates something someone else can see.

It is the nature of the internet that you could never achieve absolute censorship -- and maybe anonymity should belong to the hackers and tinkers with the will and drive to hunt and craft for it.

I do not like holding this opinion, because it feels as though it is on the similar boat as that of those who 'pull up the ladder after themselves'. Increasingly, I see it as pulling shut the trapdoors to hell.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#582

Post by AlienRobot »

NinjaTrance wrote: post #452
tqi wrote: post #58

> You’re not happy about it, but you hand over a photo of your passport and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt you. I think for this argument to carry weight with voters, privacy advocates need to be much more specific about what "coming back to haunt you" looks like. They do a little bit of it later on[1], but I think most people do a rough cost benefit in their head and decide that the small benefit outweighs the s…

According to the article: > Australia does order that personal information collected for age verification “must be destroyed once all purposes have been met.”

lol. And passwords must be hashed, right?

How is the public supposed to know how the black box of an online service handles their data?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#583

Post by AlienRobot »

chr15m wrote: post #257

> you’re criticizing a powerful politician, or talking about your experiences with abuse or addiction, or discussing embarrassing medical issues you’re facing This is not the problem. Even if, like millions, you are not talking about these things online, these systems still place you in danger. Even if you are a perfect, clean, compliant citizen these privacy-destroying systems place you in danger. Fundamentally thes…

If service A asks you for a photo of your ID/face to confirm age

and service B asks for a photo of your ID/face to give you access to your account

that's basically using the same password in two places except you will never be able to rotate your password.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#584

Post by downrightmike »

frollogaston wrote: post #291
tqi wrote: post #58

> You’re not happy about it, but you hand over a photo of your passport and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt you. I think for this argument to carry weight with voters, privacy advocates need to be much more specific about what "coming back to haunt you" looks like. They do a little bit of it later on[1], but I think most people do a rough cost benefit in their head and decide that the small benefit outweighs the s…

Most likely there's some huge breach where all the IDs are stolen and resold, which would maybe fix this problem while creating a bunch of others.

Discord Wants Your Government ID. They Just Leaked 70,000 of Them.

The company that lost thousands of government IDs to hackers now wants face scans from everyone.

https://stateofsurveillance.org/news/discord-age-verificatio...

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#585

Post by nitwit005 »

gruez wrote: post #26
j2kun wrote: post #21

There are at least some technological solutions here, such as anonymous credentials. [1] Modern versions of this technique allow one to associate metadata (like a proof of age exceeding a threshold) in such a way that the verifier can't even correlate repeated requests across users. Governments that are serious about age verification and individual privacy (which, doubtful they truly are) should agree on a protocol a…

>Modern versions of this technique allow one to associate metadata (like a proof of age exceeding a threshold) in such a way that the verifier can't even correlate repeated requests across users. If it's unlinkable, what's preventing someone from setting up a site that hands out anonymous tokens for anyone to use?

Nothing proposed will succeed in preventing access if an adult is willing to help a kid get access.

You don't need to do anything technical. Log in, and hand over your phone.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#586

Post by AlienRobot »

akie wrote: post #362
AJRF wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss the point - they are stitching it all together in a way that deanonymize you to your ISP under the guise of save the kids and then convenience

This is a very libertarian and ultimately low-trust forum where most people seem to think the government is out to get you, but I have to say: what's so great about having complete online anonymity anyway? I mean, seriously. Real life is not anonymous and consequence free either, why should online life be? It's not as if there are no downsides. There are, and some of them are so severe that they are impacting the who…

It used to be that real life was anonymous, then people started pointing cameras to everyone in public all the time. Now they want to deanonimize communications you make from inside your private residence.

Eventually you'll get a chip implanted in your brain that just sends everything you see and hear to the cloud. Because why not? Privacy doesn't matter anyway!

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#587

Post by tqi »

frollogaston wrote: post #291
tqi wrote: post #58

> You’re not happy about it, but you hand over a photo of your passport and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt you. I think for this argument to carry weight with voters, privacy advocates need to be much more specific about what "coming back to haunt you" looks like. They do a little bit of it later on[1], but I think most people do a rough cost benefit in their head and decide that the small benefit outweighs the s…

Most likely there's some huge breach where all the IDs are stolen and resold, which would maybe fix this problem while creating a bunch of others.

I think public perception is have already had numerous leaks (Equifax, yahoo, etc) without any real negative effects, so these warnings come off as alarmist.

It's a hard argument to win because a) its impossible to concretely attribute scams to a data leak and b) most people think they would be immune to scammers. Meanwhile, it's easy to point to the problems this would fix.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#588

Post by downrightmike »

chr15m wrote: post #257

> you’re criticizing a powerful politician, or talking about your experiences with abuse or addiction, or discussing embarrassing medical issues you’re facing This is not the problem. Even if, like millions, you are not talking about these things online, these systems still place you in danger. Even if you are a perfect, clean, compliant citizen these privacy-destroying systems place you in danger. Fundamentally thes…

Citizen. we have displayed subversive material on your machine for 10 nanseconds on the following occasions. Please report to your door, police will intake you for ISOCUBE detention.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#589

Post by tqi »

kklisura wrote: post #111
tqi wrote: post #58

> You’re not happy about it, but you hand over a photo of your passport and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt you. I think for this argument to carry weight with voters, privacy advocates need to be much more specific about what "coming back to haunt you" looks like. They do a little bit of it later on[1], but I think most people do a rough cost benefit in their head and decide that the small benefit outweighs the s…

> privacy advocates need to be much more specific I'm starting to think we need to lean on conspiracy theories in order to get broader population on train with this - and I'm saying this in utmost regret. That's a borrowing game from a right wing/extremist playbook. Start with this: requiring IDs online is a first step in micro-chipping the population. ...or how about this: marxists/atifa/nazis/zionists/islamist/whoe…

I think if you have to resort to making stuff up to convince people this is important, then maybe this isn't as important as you think?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#590

Post by DennisP »

Aurornis wrote: post #494
DennisP wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying such proxying apps exist now? Can you link a source for me? Regarding my scheme: The only way law enforcement should have access is if they show up and get the phone in their possession, with a warrant. Which could happen any time some teenager posts something without realizing it identifies them. If the teenager has your full credentials, that's when law enforcement sees who you are, and can take what…

> The only way law enforcement should have access is if they show up and get the phone in their possession, with a warrant. Which could happen any time some teenager posts something without realizing it identifies them. It’s beyond crazy that we’re actually talking about police showing up at someone’s house because they suspect a social media post came from an under-18. This is one step away from your local governmen…

> It’s beyond crazy that we’re actually talking about police showing up at someone’s house because they suspect a social media post came from an under-18.

As I've said repeatedly, I agree that this is beyond crazy. But at least it's a visible crazy.

What's even more crazy is that we're heading quickly into a world where we track everything that every person looks at and says online. This is a way worse outcome. But it has less immediately visible consequences so we're jumping in with both feet.

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