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Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

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Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#581

Post by bulbar »

phyzix5761 wrote: post #571
wookmaster wrote: post #508

It’s so odd to me how companies decided what LLMs are capable of without data backing it up. Were all the execs conned or something ?

They never use data to make decisions. I used to ask my managers for ROI analysis on new features they wanted to work on and they would stare blankly at me like I was speaking a foreign language. These people do things by "instincts" and for optics not because they've done any kind of analysis. Its easy for departments to be inefficient if your company is making billions of dollars per year. The million dollar losses…

I believe many have very good instincts, but they are about "do I get into trouble if I do that / don't do that"

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#582

Post by 0xpgm »

Sanzig wrote: post #27

Setting aside how shortsighted it is to fire your employees to replace them with AI, Ford also screwed up by firing the wrong employees. LLMs work best in the hands of experienced senior engineers who can work at a high level of abstraction because they already understand all the pieces underneath. In a sense, using an LLM agent is like providing instructions to a very smart, very quick junior who despite being brill…

Even if they only fire the juniors and retain the seniors, they have effectively broken the pipeline that creates more seniors for the next few decades.

That is either betting on AI being better than humans then, or closure of the company.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#583

Post by raverbashing »

therobots927 wrote: post #525
raverbashing wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds obvious, but here's the thing: that's what a tautologically good manager does. They delegate and hire subordinates to do a job. It is by design that the communication won't involve 100% of the work done You hire people to do a job, not to be a remote controlled puppet

Maybe it’s not a binary? Maybe managers should both be able to delegate AND occasionally put in the effort to learn how things are working on the ground? Otherwise after about 3 layers of hierarchy all of the signal is gone in a massive game of telephone, leaving high level executives completely clueless.

Yes, sure, good managers will want to know (some of that)

But that want is limited (needs to be), and also it depends on the IC to explain things

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#584

Post by aytigra »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #457
Incipient wrote: post #393

I have spent a SOLID 3 full days 8h/day (plus long running tasks overnight) thrashing out a random idea for a Web application using purely Opus (mostly Max, sometimes ultracode version). I'm not a project manager, but I genuinely tried a full 3-tier spec out - design->specs->build details. While it was significantly better than previous attempts, it still misses very basic things - sporadically. Eg. A clear design re…

> I haven't managed to really figure out what's the best way For you, the best way is to break your code down into modules insofar as possible, so that you don't overrun the context window. Opus Max starts forgetting things the minute it begins compressing your conversation -- and multiple compressions can make for gaps in memory. I find that it's also important to have another model serve as review/critique. I use O…

I've made it write a /status-line thing to display context tokens in the status line and also a hook to stop and ask to continue or compact whenever it reaches 250k tokens. For subscription I have also made it stop at 90% usage so Claude chat is not unusable between coding sessions. The greatest addition so far.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#585

Post by therobots927 »

raverbashing wrote: post #583
therobots927 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it’s not a binary? Maybe managers should both be able to delegate AND occasionally put in the effort to learn how things are working on the ground? Otherwise after about 3 layers of hierarchy all of the signal is gone in a massive game of telephone, leaving high level executives completely clueless.

Yes, sure, good managers will want to know (some of that) But that want is limited (needs to be), and also it depends on the IC to explain things

Sounds like laziness to me

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#586

Post by aprilthird2021 »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #449
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirt bag media! Making insinuation that I actually projected onto their article!

You said that you misinterpreted the article in the same way in another comment 1 minute before you left this one. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48705638

If you could read you'd know what I wrote there was nothing like what you're claiming

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#587

Post by Grimblewald »

ozgung wrote: post #466
Grimblewald wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Velocity implies direction, AI is just speed sans direction, AI only workflows are just really fast brownian motion centred on training corpus mean for a task. Humans can give it direction, how good that direction is depends on human expertise. We still need the humans, there are no cases for novel useful work I can think of, or have seen, where humans are no longer required.

Good analogy but Brownian motion is not the only type of motion in the nature. Constraints give the direction in a physical system, not humans. Evolution is the best example. I think objections to the Theory of Evolution and some objections to the feasibility of Artificial Intelligence have many similarities. Most people (because of their world view) assume an “intelligent” Designer is mandatory for organisms to evol…

I might not use all the same terms as you, but i largly agree. However llms live in a world almost entierly divorced from our own. Ours is physical, it's is human information corpi. For tasks suited to its world, and llm is as "human" as I am in my own domain. Same same but different. Intelligence is a fundamental trait of our universe, not a surprise.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#588

Post by wookmaster »

whateveracct wrote: post #537
wookmaster wrote: post #508

It’s so odd to me how companies decided what LLMs are capable of without data backing it up. Were all the execs conned or something ?

there is no measurement of ROI my company spends millions a year on tokens and when asked about ROI the CTO just says "LoC is up! LoC isn't a good measure of productivity but it's a measure, right? right?"

lol for us it was token spend charts, then we’re told token spend is stupid so they create some aggregate metric of cost per line of code that also tells us nothing of actual customer value. It’s wild to me how at that level there’s zero repercussions

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#589

Post by jackkora »

This was too predictable! Maybe one day AI can wholesale replace roles, but not yet. If anything, we need more seasoned people that are experienced enough to steer AI and find mistakes it makes.

Even when AI gets better, we will always need people who can troubleshoot AI itself.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#590

Post by fielddakesdawn »

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