It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12 • Hacker News Board

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#581

Post by wbadart » Sat, May 30, 2026, 4:18 PM UTC

thefossguy69 wrote: post #424

commandersaki wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny it’s the opposite for me. What if I want to switch between desktops of multiple users; easy with fast user switching, not really a thing in Linux (yeah I’m sure it can be hacked up, but bleh).

The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time.…

I'm stuck with macOS at work and these have also been the most painful parts of the experience for me. Luckily, I recently found Rectangle[0] and InstantSpaceSwitcher[1]. The former gives keyboard based arranging (though not focus; still just use cmd+tab for that) while the latter gives instant transitions between virtual desktops (including shortcuts for navigating directly to a target, rather than sliding over sequentially).

[0]: https://github.com/rxhanson/Rectangle

[1]: https://github.com/jurplel/InstantSpaceSwitcher

Recent discussion on the latter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47708818

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#582

Post by thefossguy69 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 4:22 PM UTC

darkteflon wrote: post #526

thefossguy69 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time.…

Aerospace is excellent: https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace Can’t imagine going back.

Interesting. I used to daily drive https://github.com/asmvik/yabai> for almost a year until a major macOS update broke it and I just didn't have it in me to diagnose the issue. I'll bookmark this for future adventures, thanks!

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#583

Post by krschacht » Sat, May 30, 2026, 4:24 PM UTC

In the last 18 months I tried a Framework twice and both times ended up returning it. I was running Arch both times and had too many low level issues.

I couldn’t get hibernation or sleep to work reliably. And about once a week I’d get a random freeze or crash that required me to reboot and lose all the windows I had open. I spent dozens of hours with Claude chasing things down, disabling various power management features, trying different kernels.

I really appreciate how much Apple computers just work. I’ve since invested heavily in Karabiner, Aerospace, Superkey, and a few other utilities to get close to the level of customization I had in hyprland. I still miss the polish I used to have, but I can close my laptop lid, walk out the door, and 100% trust I’ll open the lid and resume work. That counts for a lot.

I’m keeping an eye on Omarchy and Framework to see if they eventually solve all issues. Maybe in a couple years I’ll try again…

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#584

Post by bigyabai » Sat, May 30, 2026, 4:26 PM UTC

krschacht wrote: post #583

In the last 18 months I tried a Framework twice and both times ended up returning it. I was running Arch both times and had too many low level issues. I couldn’t get hibernation or sleep to work reliably. And about once a week I’d get a random freeze or crash that required me to reboot and lose all the windows I had open. I spent dozens of hours with Claude chasing things down, disabling various power management feat…

Did you not try one of the officially supported distros first? https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/officially-supported-...

In my experience, Arch and the AUR are not very reliable for identifying and respecting your system config. I've got a number of laptops that handle Arch very poorly but sing on Fedora or NixOS.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#585

Post by altcognito » Sat, May 30, 2026, 4:35 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #485

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can’t get rid of it and replace it with something else? You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher.

> The corners are huge, even when maximized. Upgraded to Mac OS 26? > You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher. Cmd+Space, type first letters of application name, enter.

I definitely use this, but if you want to navigate to specific window on an app, prepare to be annoyed.

MacOS doesn't really have a window manager, it has an app switcher, and a really inconvenient way to pick the context of your workspace.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#586

Post by ramgine » Sat, May 30, 2026, 4:50 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #563

andybp85 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in my day job doing enterprise web apps at a mac shop 16G became unusable for the engineers 3-5 yeas ago. i managed to weasel into them getting me a 64G M1 Pro in 2022 (now they won't buy us any higher than 32G). i'll probably still be using this thing in six years! to be fair, given the choice between a decade-old macbook and basically any current windows box with same specs, i'd take the macbook every time. but, if…

Indeed. I have an M1 Pro from work, but I honestly can't stand macOS anymore. The machine itself is great, especially the touchpad. And I love the aluminum body. But I hate that empty window chrome eats up half the screen. But now I'm typing this on a Lenovo P14 something-or-other, under Linux (I run Arch, by the way), and it's an all-around nicer experience than the Mac. The touchpad is somewhat inferior, but good e…

Thanks for mentioning you use Arch. I would have had to ask otherwise. I’m jk of course

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#587

Post by markus_zhang » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:09 PM UTC

whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

I’m so sad that Apple continues to push out excellent hardware with mediocre software.

Wish Asahi to be more successful.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#588

Post by okasaki » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:09 PM UTC

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #567

okasaki wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thinkpad x61 from 2007 runs the latest Ubuntu and software edit: and has the same amount of ram as the mac neo.

1024x768 low-dpi display, Core 2 Duo, etc "Runs" doing some lifting here.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#589

Post by roryirvine » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:15 PM UTC

wbadart wrote: post #581

thefossguy69 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time.…

I'm stuck with macOS at work and these have also been the most painful parts of the experience for me. Luckily, I recently found Rectangle[0] and InstantSpaceSwitcher[1]. The former gives keyboard based arranging (though not focus; still just use cmd+tab for that) while the latter gives instant transitions between virtual desktops (including shortcuts for navigating directly to a target, rather than sliding over sequ…

Oh, wow, thanks for that pointer to InstantSpaceSwitcher - looks like it might help with my biggest annoyance.

I have "reduced motion" switched on, so don't get the animated transition - instead there's a brief fade, followed by a few seconds where any input is silently ignored. So, if anything, it's even shoddier.

Honestly, the modern MacOS experience feels slightly worse than Linux from 20 years ago.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#590

Post by tiberious726 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:17 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #495

treve wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still does. On gnome you can switch via the lock screen.

I miss the 3D cube and the wobbly windows.

Install the plasma add-ons package if you're on KDE, I'm sure there's still something around for gnome too.

Burning windows away on close is my favorite