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Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

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Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#581
post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

My experience is that people will be able to justify anything that is "normal". I went vegan after learning too much of how the literal sausage is made and the amount of people who have unprompted (people are weird about it so I try to avoid talking about being vegan except for mentioning it quickly while declining food) said something along the lines of "factory farming is awful but I just love bacon" and laugh is l…

Veganism is a terrible example in this context because that community is riddled with all or nothing dogma.

If people were pragmatic instead, and the vegan community would quit alienating people the non-perfect, non-purists the world would be slightly better, too.

For example, in my country licorice is popular. Whether it contsins gelatin or not, not one pig less will be killed because it is a by-product.

10 years ago, I went to a workshop (with DIY) on how to make vegetarian and vegan sausages, and since you mention sausage, I'll use that as another example. A sausage contains herbs and vegetables (to develop taste) and certain chemistry (= cooking) techniques, for example salt and to keep the product together. It is relatively easy to make something akin to that yourself. Heck, one can sauté carrots and build something akin to a hotdog fairly easy.

Comparing it to gelatin is unrealistic, but to say sausages are made from the best meat of the animal? No, minced meat is not since then they wouldn't mince it (as rule of thumb). Frikadel is another example eaten a lot here (NL), the Germans also got their sausage culture.

Meanwhile, there's a much more dramatic example: chicken. There's a lot less meat on those birds per serving, so suffering per human/day on avg omni diet is much worse. But does that mean one should avoid free range chicken eggs? No.

And that is ignoring the environmental impact, since there too a vegan diet (with avocado and almonds requiring a plethora of water and movement of product to market) isn't ideal either (the latter might be less of issue for say Cali).

So in short, we should welcome those people who love bacon to 1) consume less bacon 2) try vegn alternatives. But it doesn't have to be either they're vegan or omni 24/7. Flexitarianism is much more reasonable for a lot of people, and also many situations can arise where such is desirable (such as gifted food, festivities, etc).

Written by someone who follows a pragmatic vegn diet.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating eating meat with martyrdom in the year 2026 is, in fact, the same cognitive dissonance you personally deny. I eat meat. And I'm highly, highly morally conflicted. I'll leave it at that to avoid sounding hypothetical—except to mention that the only logical reason I don't go vegetarian/vegan is the work and personal development that'd be required of me. (I'll take being called lazy over disingenuous any day, i…

> I eat meat. And I'm highly, highly morally conflicted. I'll leave it at that to avoid sounding hypothetical—except to mention that the only logical reason I don't go vegetarian/vegan is the work and personal development that'd be required of me. (I'll take being called lazy over disingenuous any day, if we're ostensibly virtue signaling here.) But that is precisely acting as a martyr. You're "highly morally conflic…

You say I'm 'suffering inside', not me.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really important thing that people on the left in particular seem to consistently overlook: local incentives, emergent corporate behaviors, and the unconscious need to believe you’re “right” have way more explanatory power than “X is actually evil”.

The banality of evil is a well-known idea. That evil is often done by people who are just doing their jobs and see themselves as decent people. Words are cheap, thoughts are cheap, and voting is cheap. A full-time job, on the other hand, is a substantial contribution towards something, and it comes with a huge opportunity cost. The job you have is a major factor in determining your moral character. Determining what k…

I don't think its reasonable to use the whole "banality of evil" for people working FAANG jobs unless they are on trial for war crimes and genocide. The Nazi officers were not standard grunts but rather key executives of the regime and then they tried to throw Hitler under the bus by claiming they were just following orders. When in reality, they were all pyschopaths and truly believed in what they were doing to minorities was right.

Extrapolating that to Meta or Google is a fundamental misunderstanding of history and insenstive.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#585
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so your argument is that democrats are performative which is just as bad as the republicans actively starting wars? Is there a more steelmanned version of this that I can ignore once you start making more false equivalencies in its defense?

The difference might be there in regards to Iran, with it's global market impact. But it's not there in regards to human life or suffering. That was made _very_ clear during the electoral campaign. But now it's _very different_ because it's "them" doing it and we can say we were always against this. We have to say "us good, them bad" because we're voting the same way next time, and we're not planning to vote for some…

> But it's not there in regards to human life or suffering. That was made _very_ clear during the electoral campaign.

I don’t know what to say but to call this retarded at best or evil at worst.

Trump ran on a platform that included purposefully harming people. He continues with it. Look at his response to Mueller’s death for instance.

Inb4 you mention something about a genocide in Guzah, and ignore how Trump is backing everything Netanyahu wants done in the region compared to the democrats attempts at holding him back.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#586
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere did GP say animals eating animals is abnormal.

Right, they just heavily implied it with > It seems like if it's normal enough people will say something is bad and will happily do it anyway.

I disagree it was implied. Not to mention that in an honest conversation, I shouldn't have to point out that you've cherry picked a quote (which on its face doesn't mean what you apparently think it does) from its actual context.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#587
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere did GP say animals eating animals is abnormal.

Right, they just heavily implied it with > It seems like if it's normal enough people will say something is bad and will happily do it anyway.

I do not see that implication in those words. I take it much more literally. People overlook things that are simultaneously bad and normal.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#588
post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

I have an irrational hatred of someone who believes in "reality distortion fields". Over the last 10 years, I also have come away with an intense impression that Silicon Valley is full of the self-delusional type, as evidenced by Sara's book, Palantir's weird advertising and CEO, and the insane Nimbyism. I believe it is in the best interest of the United States if the center of power shifts back from West Coast "tech…

> I have an irrational hatred of someone who believes in "reality distortion fields".

Can you clarify what you mean by "believes in"?

I believe Steve Jobs had a reality distortion field, that he was an expert convincer. Do you hate me or do you hate him or do you hate something else entirely?

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we didn't want Iran to have nukes, so we rugpulled the JCPOA and murdered the guy who declared a fatwa against nukes. We wanted to save the Iranian people from the regime that murdered 100,000 peaceful protestors (don't ask for evidence) so we butchered 170 school girls and didn't apologize. We wanted to stabilize the region, so we greenlit Israel's rampage in Lebanon and directly induced Iran to close the Stra…

> We wanted to stabilize the region, so we greenlit Israel's rampage in Lebanon Consider this hypothetical situation. Iran funds a terrorist group operating in Tijuana to fire rockets across the border into San Diego. Assume the Mexican government is not organized enough to stop the terrorists from firing rockets. What do you think the response of the US Government would be? Please recall what we did after 9/11 befor…

[dead]

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s true, that’s insane. Forgive me, I’m not a PolSci scholar. Nobody in the cabinet can speak up and overrule his whimsy? It always annoys me when the headlines are “Trump invaded this …” or “Trump slapped a tariff on…” while effectively it’s the US government that’s doing that, they are letting him to do as he pleases? Then the fault lies not with him. He’s not a king but surely seems to have absolute discret…

It's not really that insane. Don't overreact to Trump stuff - it leads you to make bad decisions and assumptions. This archaic and formal "I do declare war upon theee" is not flexible enough for the modern world and so we have found, perhaps an unhappy middle ground where the President can indeed take military action, for a limited period of time (60 days) without congressional authorization. The President is the civ…

> This archaic and formal "I do declare war upon theee" is not flexible enough for the modern world

Yes it is. And it can be done quite quickly in the modern world.

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