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A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

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Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#581

Post by heavyset_go »

vineyardmike wrote: post #408
bmitch3020 wrote: post #290

Reaction 1: how would this even work with embedded systems that have no UI to input this data? Reaction 2: it's open source, make the lawmakers do submit the changes. Reaction 3: how would this ever be enforced? Would they outlaw downloading distributions, or even older versions of distributions? When there's no exchange of money, a law like this is seems like it would be suppression of free speech. Reaction 4: Someo…

While there are some enforcement questions here, especially around non commercial OSes, most of your reactions are clearly based on the headline alone. It defines operating system in the law. This wouldn’t apply to embedded systems and WiFi routers and traffic lights and all those things. It applies to operating systems that work with associated app stores on general purpose computers or mobile phones or game console…

> (Also it’s not age verification really, it’s just a prompt that asks for your age to share as a system API for apps from above app store, no verification required)

It's not enough to adhere to the age signal:

> (3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), a developer shall treat a signal received pursuant to this title as the primary indicator of a user’s age range for purposes of determining the user’s age.

> (B) If a developer has internal clear and convincing information that a user’s age is different than the age indicated by a signal received pursuant to this title, the developer shall use that information as the primary indicator of the user’s age.

Developers are still burdened with additional liability if they have reason to believe users are underage, even if their age flag says otherwise.

The only way to mitigate this liability is to confirm your users are of age with facial and ID scans, that is why age verification systems are implemented that way: doing so minimizes liability for developers/providers and it's cheap.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#582

Post by nottorp »

Is this the end of "smart" washing machines and refrigerators?

I can imagine Samsung asking for the user's age every time you want to grab a snack and refusing to unlock the door otherwise.

Or perhaps... they could add a camera to the fridge and send a stream 24/7 to their servers so they can identify the age of whoever opens the door. For complying with the laws of California, honestly!

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#584

Post by nomel »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #577
nomel wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but to steel man a bit, the alternative is kids have access to all the adult spaces, where they will be groomed. A website/app serving grooming content to a kid is just so incredibly unlikely compared to a kid being groomed as the result of having unrestricted access. Since I do not see a solution, and you see identifying children as a risk, what do you see as a solution for kids be…

As the problem is adults trying to groom kids, the answer is robust detection and enforcement of the current anti-grooming laws. It's ironic that people supposedly care about this when there's also a child rapist/murderer being kept safe as President without being held accountable for his crimes. I suppose this law could be used as a defense against getting caught grooming minors - "I thought they were adult as surel…

> robust detection and enforcement

How, exactly, does one accomplish "robust detection of a child"? I assume your answer would include complete surveillance of all internet communication? Could you expand on your idea of the implementation?

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#586

Post by knorker »

dataflow wrote: post #513
roywiggins wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> general-purpose computing device This term doesn't seem defined in the law at all. How general is general? Graphing calculators that support apps and Python? Of course, they don't usually have "accounts" either. But to a technologist it's a "general purpose computer" insofar as it can run new code that the user loads into it, it can definitely run games that it didn't come from the factory with, etc. It's a tiny mu…

Does your pocket calculator with Python have an account setup process?

I guess it's gonna have to have it, now.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#587

Post by everdrive »

This is a really strong example of how both the left and the right have been moving away from liberalism (ie, "classical liberalism," the general belief that people should be free to make their own choices and pursue their own interests) for the past 16 years or so. A bill like this could have just as easily come from Texas.

Practically, I think this is tough. How does a business verify their 20k Linux servers in AWS? What prevents Linux users from simply modifying their code such that they no longer do age verification? I think it's easy to imagine circumventing this one law, but this is another brick in the wall. Maybe your bank stops working on Linux. Maybe major websites stop working unless they get your citizen ID and age verification data from your OS. Maybe no one makes a browser that doesn't try to grab that information.

Not joking; stock up on books and keep a collection of media that you own personally. Perhaps your linux computer will start looking a lot like your PC from the early 90s: not connected to the internet, just used for word processing, some installed games, and media.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#588

Post by kittikitti »

This is Big Tech manipulating us to be against regulations on their platforms including preventing pedophilia on Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. I'm still very much so in favor of regulating them. This smokescreen of a policy isn't going to confuse me.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#589

Post by nickjj »

frshgts wrote: post #20
frshgts wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definitions of the terms are completely bananas The language is so broad it seems to cover all software that exists and is accessible via the internet, and every install of an operating system on any kind of machine > (c) “Application” means a software application that may be run or directed by a user on a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing device that can access a covered applicati…

good to know that `grep` will have to check how old i tell my os i am before it will do anything

This reminds me of an org I used to work at where they had CrowdStrike installed on every work laptop.

I once used curl to download a shell script from GitHub and it caused a defcon 1 event where security reached out to me asking why I downloaded it.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#590

Post by lazide »

pico303 wrote: post #493
vineyardmike wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are some enforcement questions here, especially around non commercial OSes, most of your reactions are clearly based on the headline alone. It defines operating system in the law. This wouldn’t apply to embedded systems and WiFi routers and traffic lights and all those things. It applies to operating systems that work with associated app stores on general purpose computers or mobile phones or game console…

The language in the bill says operating system “or” application store. Isn't that then implying any operating system that would download applications, even if it doesn’t come from a store. But IANAL. Seems to me this would include TVs, cars, smart devices, etc. The Colorado version of this bill excludes devices used for physical purchase, so your gas pumps and POS systems would be excluded in CO. But I didn’t see tha…

Just the idea of requiring age verification to admin each VM in a fleet of VMs makes me chuckle.
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