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Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

discuss.ai.google.dev

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Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#581

Post by bilekas »

master-lincoln wrote: post #568
bilekas wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi indirectly funds the Kremlin's regime, just to know where your money goes if we're talking about not supporting google.

You make it sound like a significant amount is going to Kreml but I assume the API cost for using Yandex from Kagi is neglectable and only a fraction of that goes to the Russian government. Isn't this more of a symbolic thing to request not cooperating with Russian companies?

For some people it doesn’t matter how negligible. And it’s better to know and make up their own mind.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#582

Post by int_19h »

ayewo wrote: post #524
oofbey wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve often suspected these models of getting dumber when the service is under high load. But I’ve never seen actually measured results or proof. Anybody know of real published data here?

Here's a recent comment [1] by an OpenAI engineer confirming that they do in fact make such trade offs between intelligence and efficiency. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46909905

That comment only says that they have a lot of different options for smaller & faster models that people can opt into. It doesn't say that they dynamically scale things up or down depending on demand.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#583

Post by siva7 »

nubg wrote: post #465
christianqchung wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't. Either people will say you're overreacting to stylistic choices and that it's not AI, or that it's AI but a good comment (it's not), or that it's AI and a bad comment, but you should just ignore it like any other spam.

Literally unwinnable for honest people it seems.

Honesty dies first.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#584

Post by zarzavat »

oger wrote: post #513
xnx wrote: post #492

Additional information from Google employee https://x.com/_mohansolo/status/2025766889205739899 : "We’ve been seeing a massive increase in malicious usage of the Anitgravity backend that has tremendously degraded the quality of service for our users. We needed to find a path to quickly shut off access to these users that are not using the product as intended. We understand that a subset of these users were not aware…

While I see the point of limited capacity, it also shows that Google did not plan for rate limiting / throttling of high usage customers. This is ALWAYS the problem with flatrate pricing models. 2% of your customers burn 80+% of your capacity. Did see that in former times with DSL, not too long ago with mobile and now with AI subscriptions. If you want to provide a "good" service for all customers better implement (a…

Yeah this is a massive fuckup on Google's part and they are taking it out on their customers as per usual.

It's not hard to define a quota system and enforce it. If the quota is too high then reduce the quota. If people are abusing the quota with automated requests then detect that and rate limit those users.

If I'm paying $200+ a month I should be able to saturate Google with requests. It's up to Google to enforce their policies via backpressure so that they don't get overloaded.

Then again this is the same company that suspended people's gmail because they sent too many emotes in YouTube chat. Sadge.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#585

Post by int_19h »

driverdan wrote: post #265
DANmode wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who did you move to from Gmail? How’d you make out?

I'm not OP but I moved to Fastmail. It has been great, I haven't missed Gmail at all.

Did the same, and Fastmail can also import your mail history.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#586

Post by owebmaster »

ljm wrote: post #553
KronisLV wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We understand that a subset of these users were not aware that this was against our ToS and will get a path for them to come back on but we have limited capacity and want to be fair to our actual users. It feels like a good default for this would be something similar to video game bans: where you get a "vacation" from the service with a clear reason for why that is, but can return to using it later. Given how much…

Getting your Google Workspace account nuked because an employee hooked their company Gemini account to OpenClaw would certainly be a novel business risk.

what you described is that using google is a novel business risk

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#587

Post by cess11 »

vincston wrote: post #440
shevy-java wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, getting banned without warning is rough as well. Agreed. The lesson is: do not become dependent on Google. Ever. (Unfortunately I still use youtube and a chromium-based browser. Long-term I hope to find alternatives to both problems. Google search I no longer need because Google already ruined it a few years ago; the quality now is just horrible. I can not find anything useful with it anymore.)

What google search alternative have you found? Im trying out ecosia, duckduckgo and brave search, but i find their search results even worse, so in the second query i tend to bang to google..

Might want to try https://www.mojeek.com/ .

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#588

Post by mark_l_watson »

vincston wrote: post #440
shevy-java wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, getting banned without warning is rough as well. Agreed. The lesson is: do not become dependent on Google. Ever. (Unfortunately I still use youtube and a chromium-based browser. Long-term I hope to find alternatives to both problems. Google search I no longer need because Google already ruined it a few years ago; the quality now is just horrible. I can not find anything useful with it anymore.)

What google search alternative have you found? Im trying out ecosia, duckduckgo and brave search, but i find their search results even worse, so in the second query i tend to bang to google..

Maybe have to pay for search? I am experimenting with paying Proton another $10/month for a paid lumo+ account. lumo+ is a private chat like ChatGPT that uses a strong Mistral model and also privacy-preserving web_search LLM tooling under the hood. For about a month I just use lumo+ with the web_search tool enabled. I may not do this forever, but for now I like just having one tool to use. Note: I still use gemini for technical work, but lumo+ for day to day chat and web search.

In the past I just use DuckDuckGo for most search, occasionally Google. That also worked well for me.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#589

Post by mark_l_watson »

torginus wrote: post #107
bethekind wrote: post #15

This is draconian. > Our investigation specifically confirmed that the use of your credentials within the third-party tool “open claw” for testing purposes constitutes a violation of the Google Terms of Service [1]. This is due to the use of Antigravity servers to power a non-Antigravity product. I must be transparent and inform you that, in accordance with Google’s policy, this situation falls under a zero tolerance…

Isn't the reason companies are doing this because they're offering tokens at a discount, provided they're spent through their tooling? Considering the tremendous amount of tokens OpenClaw can burn for something that has nothing to do with sofware development, I think it's reasonable for Google to not allow using tokens reserved for Antigravity. I don't think there's such a restriction if you pay for the API out of po…

I agree. As others have mentioned here, the authenticate with AntiGravity web popup clearly says that this authentication is only to be used with Google products.

How can Claws users miss this?

What Google could have done better: obviously implement rate throttling on API calls authenticated through the Gemini AI Pro $20/month accounts. (I thought they did this, buy apparently not?) Google tries hard to get people to get API keys, which is what I do, and there seems to be a very large free tier on API calls before my credit card gets hit every month.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#590

Post by mark_l_watson »

cedws wrote: post #491
usef- wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reality that when they control the client it can be significantly cheaper for them to run: the Claude code creator has mentioned that the client was carefully designed to maximise prompt caching. If you use a different client, your usage patterns can be different and it may cost them significantly more to serve you. This isn't a sudden change, either: they were always up-front that subscriptions are for th…

It reminds me of the net neutrality debate from a decade ago. I'm not American but I remember the discord and online hate towards Ajit Pai when they were repealing it. On one side you had the argument that repealing net neutrality would mean you can save money on your internet bill by only paying for access to what you use. On the other, you had the argument that it would just enable companies to milk you for even mo…

Use of Chinese models: If I had not got a discount for signing up for a full year of Gemini AI Pro for something like $14/month, I might have started just using a Chinese chat model for things where privacy is not an issue. Ironic that I am now paying for both Gemini AI Plus and also $20/month for Ollama Cloud (as a super easy way to experiment with many open models). I am also paying Proton $10/month to use their handy lumo+ private chat service built on Mistral models. I feel like I am spending too much money but I don’t want to feel locked into just a few vendors, and to be honest it is fun having alternatives. A year ago I used APIs for Chinese models (and Mistral in France) and the cost was really low.
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