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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#581

Post by ben_w »

KomoD wrote: post #542
happymellon wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like nobody trusts Huawei or Xiaomi phones. Loads of people trusted Huawei, even after all the hyperbole about backdoors for the government. It needed regulators banning Huawei to knock their share of the market and protect the homegrown spyware.

I trust Xiaomi, they make great phones.

They can make great phones and still be spying on the user and everyone near them.

They wouldn't be good for intel gathering (either deliberate or incidental, c.f. FitBit or whatever leaking some US military info because of all the soldiers tracking themselves) if they weren't also just straight up good products.

This lack of exclusivity between "quality" and "spying" is also why I found it hard to trust US products even before Trump 2.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#582

Post by thephyber »

happymellon wrote: post #539
uyzstvqs wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> like nobody trusts Huawei or Xiaomi phones. Loads of people trusted Huawei, even after all the hyperbole about backdoors for the government. It needed regulators banning Huawei to knock their share of the market and protect the homegrown spyware.

The government bans on Huawei were obviously do to three reasons: network security, economic competition, and politics.

Huawei doesn’t only make phones — they also make the cell network infrastructure and they sell it at much lower costs than American companies do. The US put pressure on allied countries to divest from Huawei infrastructure (especially 5G cell networking) to both avoid the security risks and to leave those allies with only American companies to buy from.

And we can’t forget that Trump very publicly used Huawei’s executive as a hostage to a negotiation.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzh...

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#583

Post by tzs »

uejfiweun wrote: post #321
bayindirh wrote: post #316

The elephant Tesla mocked has run, and stomped over them. Now there comes the pivot. While "The old auto establishment" is not a benevolent structure, they proved that experience is something earned with time and doing things. Corporate knowledge and memory is real, and you can't beat it with brute force. They started the change, but they failed to keep up with the pace. Also hubris, greed and monies.

I don't really get this take... not when Tesla is by a wide mile the world's most valuable automaker. How does Tesla ending production of the S and X equate to the old auto establishment "stomping over them"?

In terms of actually selling cars Tesla is around #15 by annual unit sales and around #11 by annual sales in dollars.

Toyota sells more cars in a year then Tesla has sold ever.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#585

Post by HWR_14 »

piva00 wrote: post #384
haspok wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all good, don't worry, the stock is doing quite well, near its record high. A man jumping around in spandex is all they need.

It's actually bizarre how seemingly nothing impacts $TSLA: profits down 46%, revenue down 3%, cutting successful product lines that used to sell quite a bit, a massively failed product in the Cybertruck, FSD promises still unfulfilled, and on top of all that US$ 2 billion siphoned away to another unrelated company. With all of that, the stock closed upwards on the after market hours. Perhaps only Musk's death could c…

> would have never expected to see a cult of personality being run on the top of S&P 500 market caps,

Steve Jobs had a cult of personality as well. Of course Apple had financial reasons to support its valuation when he was leading it in the 2000s

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#586

Post by rob74 »

lnsru wrote: post #355
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

It will be a manufacturer of vaporware if you look at how much they announced over the last years and how much of that has actually materialized...

But yeah, I guess Tesla lives by its CEO (and his grand promises that keep the stock price up) and dies by its CEO (who alienated Tesla buyers by, amongst other things, throwing his lot in with a regressive fossil fuel supporting administration and by personally supervising the dismantling of agencies such as USAID).

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#587

Post by ACCount37 »

rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

This LIDAR wank annoys me.

If you can train a policy that drives well on cameras, you can get self-driving. If you can't, you're fucked, and no amount of extra sensors will save you.

Self-driving isn't a sensor problem. It always was, is, and always will be an AI problem.

No amount of LIDAR engineering will ever get you a LIDAR that outputs ground truth steering commands. The best you'll ever get is noisy depth estimate speckles that you'll have to massage with, guess what, AI, to get them to do anything of use.

Sensor suite choice is an aside. Camera only 360 coverage? Good enough to move on. The rest of the problem lies with AI.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#588

Post by ben_w »

mattmanser wrote: post #430
raincole wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. When Tesla got started, full EVs were extremely niche. They were known for their short range and nothing else. Tesla defeated common sense. This is what supports their anti-common-sense stock price.

Everyone knew that was the future and that the big auto manufacturers were deliberately dragging. No-one (serious) thought there was a market for the cybertruck. The stock price is pure madness, it's like it's priced in robotaxis, but that's clearly not going to happen for Tesla. And if it did, it would be a small-ish market, their brand has become toxic in so many big markets.

> No-one (serious) thought there was a market for the cybertruck.

If they'd hit the price and performance of the launch announcements they might have. $40k base for what he initially talked about is a vastly better proposal than $61k base for what he actually delivered.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#589

Post by brk »

torginus wrote: post #521
lnsru wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

It didn't fail imo - it was intended a low-volume product for next-gen Tesla tech - Ethernet based fieldbus, 48V systems, area controllers etc. The philosophy is the same like other high-end cars - you field test your latest experimental tech first in a car with lower sales but high margins - if your fancy stuff has a 1% failure rate, in a 100k production run, that's 1000 vehicles - high but manageable. If you sell m…

It failed based on the sales projections that Tesla set. Also, several reviews have not exactly been kind, along with lots of comments from owners about annoying issues and malfunctions.

If Tesla needed beta testers for things they hadn't figured out yet there would have been better ways to go about that.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#590

Post by sbaildon »

rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

The linked article is clear as to why the S and X don’t need to be in Tesla’s product line

> Tesla’s far more popular models are the 3 and Y, which accounted for 97% of the company’s 1.59 million deliveries last year

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