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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#581

Post by alex43578 »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #517
Workaccount2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range is the misconception, because people view range through the "sit and fill up then drive till empty" paradigm. That is not how EVs work or how they should be used. They should be charged overnight/when you are doing something else, and on road trips should be charged to align with other stops even if those stops are 10 minutes. It's rare that I have ever done the "sit in the car for 40 minutes waiting for charge…

So.... what happens when you don't have at home charging, or it's too limited to give you any meaningful range?

Get better at home charging, or have your apartment/condo install it? If none of the above, then an EV isn’t the right choice for you.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#582

Post by fullstop »

loeg wrote: post #564
fullstop wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equinox EV. Now that the tax credits have expired it is a different story. The 2025 gas version's MSRP was about 30k, and the electric one was about 35k with a $7500 tax credit.

Ok, thanks. Current 2026 base trim prices are 29k for the ICE and 35k for the EV. If you told me GM was eating thinner unit margins on the EV version, I wouldn't be shocked either.

It's been a good car. Maintenance, so far, has been tire rotations and wiper fluid.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#583

Post by BizarroLand »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #178
Workaccount2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lighting is fine for towing, especially the type that people usually do. You can tow up to 10,000lbs and the truck has ridiculous power to pull it. What you can't do it tow it long distances (>90mi, worst case) without 40 minute stops every 1.5 hours. That sucks. But the truth is very few truck owners are towing huge loads long distances . However, if you are pulling your lawn care trailer around town, you will n…

> But the truth is very few truck owners are towing huge loads long distances. This pattern also applies more broadly. Most people don't actually need to drive 400 miles without stopping, don't actually need an SUV, and in some cases don't actually need a truck. For a huge swath of the population some variation on a hybrid/electric hatchback/wagon or minivan is actually the best match for their needs, but practicalit…

The reason I'm holding out for a 400 mile range vehicle is many fold.

1: Sometimes I actually do drive 400 miles in a single sitting, and I want to be able to keep doing that.

2: The last 10% of charge seems to take the longest. If I can safely fast charge in 20 minutes from 30 to 300 miles range, then I would have no range anxiety even when I'm on a long road trip.

3: I know the tech is coming, and I can wait until it gets here. I don't have an "only" option when it comes to vehicles.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#584

Post by nospice »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #277
nospice wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's a different aspect of utility: The F150 Lightning includes 120V and optionally 240V outlets, so it replaces the need to carry a separate gas-powered generator. A small generator costs few hundred bucks and fits comfortably in any truck actually used for work. It's a small perk that some pro users would probably pay for, but it's not a selling point for a radically different car design.

it's a few hundred bucks, an extra thing to remember, takes up bed space, requires bringing gas, and is loud and annoying to use. It's not the biggest thing, but it's a pretty nice value add.

I mean, if you bought a Cybertruck, you've already given up on a ton of bed space. I'm not saying that a built-in power source isn't nice, but I doubt it swayed any minds.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#585

Post by yowayb »

alexjplant wrote: post #183
grouchomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

I once rented a "kei van" in Japan once. I think I remember seeing similarly utilitarian trucks, but forget what they were called. I found the kei vans very practical.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#586

Post by danans »

rootusrootus wrote: post #408
danans wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. > As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. The F150 Lighting (and the Cybertruck) are failing precisely because it was impractical. It was expensive, has limited range when doing actual "pickup truck" work, like hauling tons of construction materials. It was buil…

> hauling tons of construction materials Lots of people do exactly that. You can load it all the way past GVWR and it has little effect on the range. It's towing that hurts. Many people use these for business with great success.

> Many people use these for business with great success.

Not enough to make it economically viable. Most people who want an EV want a compact, sedan, crossover, or sports car.

Most people who want a luxury pick up truck want to burn gasoline.

The niche market that does exist wants a Rivian.

For EV trucks priced and appointed for everyone else, I'm looking forward to what Slate and Telos make.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#587

Post by 4d4m »

to11mtm wrote: post #128
jandrese wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks are subjective, but what I don't understand is why they put an enormous vision obscuring frunk on it. The vehicle could have been considerably easier to maneuver in tight spots and safer to pedestrians at the loss of just some dubious storage space with no loss in bed capacity. Or it could have been the same length or even a little shorter and have a full 4x8 bed in the back. If anything the vehicle was designe…

The Lightning was done the way it was because they were able to re-use a lot of existing F150 tooling/etc and keep the R&D cost lower in the process.

That makes sense. The front and end are the most unique.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#588

Post by fc417fc802 »

cheschire wrote: post #514
omnimus wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are out of touch. I bet even many people here think it's mainly virtue signaling. I mean… do any of the commercial services in US use pickup trucks? It seems to all be vans? Why not to get a van then as a contractor?

I see commercial lawn services driving in pickups a lot. It's a job that benefits from the open bed.

I tend to see them with either flatbed, trailer, or both. Occasionally box van plus trailer. Not usually a pickup and certainly not a luxury one.

I don't understand why flatbeds aren't more popular here. (Well if we assume that pickups aren't actually for utility then I guess it makes sense.)

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#589

Post by alexjplant »

jmyeet wrote: post #546
alexjplant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

> The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. Not really true. Something like an F150/250/350 is absolutely built for utility. It's popular for a reason. It's just not used for utility by a large number of buyers. It's a "pavement princess". The Cybertruck is an objectively bad product for many reasons of which utility is pretty high up there. For example, it's really heavy because of the steel body yet it ha…

> That's a funny example because it shows you know just as much about watches as you do about trucks, which is to say nothing.

Nice ad hominem. No diver is buying a Submariner specifically as a backup for their dive computer for the exact reasons that you went on to outline in your post. It's a textbook Veblen good. The Chinese can build a mechanical Sub clone that keeps the same time as a real one for $100. Swatch (via Omega) builds a more technically-impressive dive watch at a fraction of the price. Oris makes one with an analog depth gauge for even less than the SMP. All of them are more inaccurate and less reliable than anything quartz or digital.

Rolexes stopped being tool watches a few years into their post-Quartz crisis recovery. My GC buddy drives a Tundra. Fleets of white collar workers drive Crew Cab F-150s with wheels more expensive than the worthless Regular Cab I had years ago. No need to get twisted up about it.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#590

Post by nospice »

mrexroad wrote: post #485
alexjplant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…

I think there's basically one 4x4 van on the market in the US right now. So you're making a pretty bad generalization here. In the Bay Area, it's probably true that a van would work well, although I lived in a mixed-income neighborhood and all the construction guys had beater pickups. But if you live in a place with snow and unpaved residential roads, 4x4 is pretty much a must (and pickups can be also be used for plowing, etc).
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