Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm returning my Framework 16

yorickpeterse.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 621 posts

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#581

Post by kasey_junk »

pdimitar wrote: post #564
kasey_junk wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be better off for my work laptop with an even smaller cube that was built expecting a hub to be plugged in. No monitor, keyboard or mouse. I don’t think the keyboard and monitor on it have ever been used outside of diagnosing why the hub isn’t working.

Yeah, that too. And AFAIK many devs do that, they buy mini PCs that are very generously specced and just carry them between home and office, usually plugging every periphery needed (display, keyboard, mouse, Ethernet) by just plugging one high-speed port from the box PC to the hub.

I worry about throwing a box that isn’t meant to be moved a lot into my back back every day

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#582

Post by Esophagus4 »

jdujfkhllhl wrote: post #518
Esophagus4 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah sorry, I must be thinking of the Apple of 2025 that still hasn’t added USB-A to their laptops (even though my Framework has 2) and expects me to carry a dongle everywhere, because after all, it’s my fault for not completely rearranging my world to do what Apple wants. Or I must be thinking about the Apple of 2025 that rolled out Liquid Glass, an OS so disastrously bad I have to toggle accessibility settings just t…

China and EU have mandated usb-c for all rechargeable devices, for many years. Usb-a is legacy, together with vga, parallel printer ports and other old and bulky connectors, such connectors should require adapters. This is a good thing. That’s why apple laptops are using usb-c.

Such a ridiculous sentiment. You can justify all you want, but I still have USB-A on my Framework :) It is not legacy because 1) I am not in China and 2) I want it.

And I noticed you didn’t touch on Liquid Glass… guessing that one is much tougher to explain away…

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#583

Post by tracker1 »

I think what would be my biggest issue with the Framework 16 is mentioned... the spacers next to the touchpad... I really wish they'd offer a standard single-deck option for the touchpad that didn't have spacer/relocation options at all. The speakers would also be something I would regularly notice.

I'd probably go for the 13" myself... hardware wise, IMO Apple is really hard to beat all around. For what you interact with, it's absolutely the best model(s) around... the air and pro are both really good and solid. Displays, keyboard, touchpads, speakers are all well above average, and I don't think I've seen a combination I feel is better all around... that said, I'm less inclined to want to lock myself in. I'm going to use my M1 air until it dies, but I don't think I'll ever buy Apple hardware again though.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#584

Post by thiht »

oldestofsports wrote: post #187
thiht wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you’re being downvoted, that’s a ridiculous statement. 2000€ for a laptop is definitely premium pricing, not mid range.

I wouldn’t call anything with less than 64gb of memory premium, and if we look at macbooks were already looking above 3000

MacBooks are premium, no matter how much memory they have

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#585

Post by grim_io »

goku12 wrote: post #572
grim_io wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is concerned what anyone deserves in terms of hardware. Different companies "impose" different tradeoffs upon us. Pick what you like, but expect to pay a premium for a less popular choice.

> Different companies "impose" different tradeoffs upon us. The "different tradeoffs" those companies offer us are a lie. There are other tradeoffs they won't ever explore. But I won't explain it anymore because I did that practically in every single comment of mine in this thread. Just ignoring it and repeating this trope is hardly a counterargument. > Pick what you like, but expect to pay a premium for a less popul…

And yet, you completely ignore the possibility that someone could value portability, lightness or even looks of the device far above any points you hold very dear.

I get it, all that you say I would agree on regarding my stationary hardware.

On the go, I have very different demands. And the hardware sellers are not stupid, they know what sells.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#586

Post by bee_rider »

goku12 wrote: post #574
bee_rider wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t “reuse the PSU” kind of a tempting trap? I though it was—a cheap part that can take down the rest of your expensive system. I though the advice was to get a new one with each build…

If the PSU is that crappy, then yes. But these things are supposed to come with over voltage protection, current limiters, resettable fuses etc at the output. Even bad ones are not supposed to cascade their failure to the rest of the system. But let's think of a better option. What if all spare parts came with an expiry date and a service schedule? On top of giving us a baseline to retire the part, the manufacturer w…

Oh neat, I was not aware. In the 70’s then, computer parts came with an expiration date? I wonder why they stopped, was it a tradition inherited from car, radio, or appliance parts, or something, where the idea of a wear-part is (or at least was) somewhat more developed?

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#587

Post by wkat4242 »

dngray wrote: post #571
wkat4242 wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple also drove the quest for extreme thinness. Even Lenovo Thinkpad T keyboards are terrible now due to it.

I really want to love the MTNU reform with its Kailh Choc White switches. I wish like there was a laptop that actually had a mechanical keyboard. That's why I've been thinking of paring my desktop-replacement 16" laptop with a Pocket Reform or something like that.

Oh yeah I didn't know that one. I do know Logitech has some ultra-thin ones too though. Very good keyboards too. They'd do nice in a laptop as well.

I'd very gladly sacrifice thinness for a decent keyboard. The Thinkpads had an OK compromise for a while but since the Thinkpad T14s gen2 or so they have been horrible as well. My old T490s was still serviceable.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#588

Post by wkat4242 »

brookst wrote: post #468
goku12 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a major clarification is in order here. I'm not talking about just the framework here. If anything, the problems with framework is the direct result of the absolutely stupid industry-wide product design culture and market tastes. You can see all the major open-ish hardware designers grappling with similar issues - pinephone, System76, Librem... I will explain later why it is so. But here is the point - we nee…

Lamenting market taste and the resulting mass market designs is basically yelling at clouds. Simple fact is that most people have different priorities than the “make everything upgradable” crowd would like. That’s not going to change. Why would 90% of the market “unite” with 10% who want a totally different set of tradeoffs? It’s like asking that all car buyers unite and demand manual transmissions in every car. I lo…

> It’s like asking that all car buyers unite and demand manual transmissions in every car. I love manual cars, but I recognize most people do not want that for most of their driving. So why would the majority demand this feature that they don’t actually want, and which would not be a better experience for most?

Um that's like the status quo in Europe lol. We all drive manual here. it's not that unlikely. Automatics are the exception here (and you must learn to drive manual otherwise you get a restricted license)

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#589

Post by cosmic_cheese »

wkat4242 wrote: post #587
dngray wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to love the MTNU reform with its Kailh Choc White switches. I wish like there was a laptop that actually had a mechanical keyboard. That's why I've been thinking of paring my desktop-replacement 16" laptop with a Pocket Reform or something like that.

Oh yeah I didn't know that one. I do know Logitech has some ultra-thin ones too though. Very good keyboards too. They'd do nice in a laptop as well. I'd very gladly sacrifice thinness for a decent keyboard. The Thinkpads had an OK compromise for a while but since the Thinkpad T14s gen2 or so they have been horrible as well. My old T490s was still serviceable.

One space that I don't think I've seen explored is building a laptop around a tiny, ultra-low-power passively cooled SoC board that can easily fit beside the keyboard instead of under it in a 12"-16" chassis and saves space that'd otherwise need to be dedicated to cooling. That'd buy a substantial amount of Z-budget for a quality keyboard without blowing up chassis thickness.

Naturally this laptop wouldn't be suited for some types of work due to lack of horsepower, but there's always tradeoffs somewhere.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#590

Post by Spooky23 »

Joeri wrote: post #350
Spooky23 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screens are dramatically better than a few years ago and have been advancing if you care about and shop for the feature. Trackpads are slowly sucking less. Most people only see this in MacBook Pros, but the other manufacturers have excellent screens that are often hidden behind customization options and complex models/branding. I have a framework and love it, but it’s a computer made for a specific purpose that doesn…

I have to disagree on trackpads sucking less. This year I walked into a big box electronics store and tried the screen, keyboard and trackpad on every laptop they had on display. Trackpads were universally abysmal, with the sole exception of the macbooks. They all had the frustrating diveboard design, every single one at every price point from every manufacturer. I’m sure you can buy laptops with decent trackpads onl…

I didn’t say good just less bad.

Apple obviously produces the only product incorporating a touchpad that applies any significant, deliberate thought about it.

Post reply on HN