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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#581

Post by omnimus »

exabrial wrote: post #231
omnimus wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the biggest issue is that “trucks” like F-150 are actually used because of US tax system that exempts such massive vehicles from emmision taxes because they are work trucks. They are pretty ineffective work vehicles but some people just love them as a symbol. That symbolism goes completely against electric/green vehicles. In other words - people who buy F-150 would never buy electric vehicle and people who are…

> people just love them as a symbol This is an unfortunate trope that is oft repeated by those that live their life in constant upgrade cycles. The regular F-150 is a pinnacle of value engineering for Ford. It's infinitely repairable for owners. Look around on the highway, you will see hundreds of 15+ year old F150s on the road, and a few times a day I will see 25+ year old trucks on the road too. There are thousands…

Fair. Look I think the big difference in perception is that in most countries outside US these trucks are just a symbol. Like if you see some F-150 or RAM it is always used by some angry MAGA and gun supporters. It makes no sense to use these in Europe. They are not road legal so they are imported under special licenses, they are so oversized they can't park anywhere. There restrictions on loading pickups so people don't even use the truck bed. Always one guy driving them. They are for showing off your opinions.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#582

Post by philipallstar »

adrr wrote: post #380
smackeyacky wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper? Not sure how. While an ICE engine does have cooling systems and fuelling systems, water pumps and fuel pumps are relatively cheap and simple devices. An EV generally has a battery cooling system along with regenerative braking. EVs have roughly the same mechanical things as an ICE vehicle too, HVAC, suspension, brakes, in car entertainment, heated seats. Lighting. An entire 12v subsystem to power all that st…

China EVs are cheaper than ICE cars. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/why-evs-are-now-cheaper-tha...

China subsidises electric car companies to the tune of billions of dollars[0], as well as providing some tax breaks, so that's not a useful comparison.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-...

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#583

Post by Amezarak »

unionpivo wrote: post #570
stackghost wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something tells me that dishwashers are smaller in areas where the Twingo is sold. There's no way my piece of shit Samsung dishwasher would fit in your car. It's huge.

In a lot of smaller cars, you can fold down back row. And if you are ok, with having trunk open, and tied down, you can transport fridges (I used reno clio, that is slightly bigger). Done that myself (not two door wide ones, one door fridge). That's said I just found out you can hire van for 35EUR 20min away from where I live, so nowdays I just do that.

I looked it up. It does not appear to me it would be possible to fit an American dishwasher in that car in the box, seats folded down or not, based on the internal dimension and hatch width/height or door width/height. It might be possible if you take it out of the box.

It's important to note that American appliances are generally larger than European ones.

I drive a small very useful car almost every day I have moved a ton of stuff in (including a DRESSER) but it's inarguable that trucks simply have greater utility for this sort of thing. And any time I do need to move something...I just use the cheap pickup I bought so I don't even have to worry about it or spend ages trying to squeeze it in.

Most recent purchase: Christmas tree. Yeah, that wouldn't have fit in my car.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#584

Post by beAbU »

class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

> The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles)

I agree that small commercial vehicles are the right prime target for electrification, but why the pick-up? I would argue that the classic van is a much more sensible small commercial vehicle than a pick-up. As a non-USian, do you mind explaining why the pick-up is so much more popular in this category? The van wins in all tests in my mind, except maybe that it's less manly?

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#585

Post by hopelite »

markdown wrote: post #558
qdog wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so, not like it was once upon a time. I had a manual 6-cylinder I bought in about 2002 for around $14000, no leather, 2wd extended cab. That's like $25k in today's dollars according to Google. If they made a basic truck for even $40k as EV it might sell a lot better, but I am pretty sure they are all about selling 60k+ trucks for profit.

The BYD Shark 6 sells for US$40k in Australia: https://bydautomotive.com.au/shark-6 There's a 100% tariff on top of all the regulatory and political hurdles that prevent BYD from selling in the US, but it shows that a very nice truck can be built for $40k.

Americans are not allowed to have better quality, lower priced Chinese vehicles because they have to suffer the incompetence, failure, abuse, and plunder by their ruling class due to … the decades of incompetence, failure, abuse, and plunder of their parasitic and alien ruling class.

It is easy to understand what the tariffs are attempting and why, but what supporters don’t get is that at the very least it’s all wrong in sequence and timing, not to mention poorly executed due to the schizophrenic and manic nature of American politics that is dominated by the president’s supposed term limits and warfare of memes people believe. “A day late and a dollar short” has probably never been more appropriate.

The inherent problem with empire and reserve currency is that it supplies a drug to a ruling class that is already inherently prone to excess.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#586

Post by godelski »

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #428
godelski wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really miss all the short trucks. For a long time I had a F150 supercab (made in the 90's) and while it was a great truck it was just excessive for 99% of what I used the vehicle for. That includes the vast majority of times I used it to haul and tow! I always envied my friend's smaller truck. Over a decade I think my truck was the better vehicle in only a handful of situations. (Far better to rent one for the day…

I don't actually think people are driving around with high beams on. Modern LED headlights are just brighter, and cars are higher up than they used to be, meaning older lower cars, especially sedans are just in the path of regular beams. I actually yelled at someone once to turn off their high beams because I was so convinced that's what it was. turns out, they just drive a tesla, which just have blinding lights. I g…

While I think that's part of it I can assure you there's also a lot of people running around with their brights on. I've seen them switch (after aggressively flashing mine) and the brights are a wider beam. So it is not just the intensity.

My running hypothesis is the autobright features on some cars is to blame. My friend drives around with his on and I definitely notice it doesn't properly react.

  > they just drive a tesla, which just have blinding lights
I was thinking of that Deer in the Headlights ad from years ago and then stumbled on Mercedes promoting this... 11 years ago...[0].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3pTHSIYFlg

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#587

Post by omnimus »

sroerick wrote: post #149
formerly_proven wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford actually makes a highly practical electric work vehicle. It's called E-Transit.

I don't mean this personally against you, please don't take it as such, but the number of people in this thread who seem to have absolutely no idea what a work truck is used for is absolutely wild.

Truck is used for different kind of vehicles around the world. When you say truck i would bet many people imagine freight trucks, heavy machinery or medium sized "cube" freight trucks that are used for last mile deliveries to shops. They won't imagine american pickup to be a truck.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#588

Post by philipallstar »

rootusrootus wrote: post #219
tracker1 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significant portions of the body and interior were not shared with general F-150 models... At least those parts most likely to be damaged in minor accidents... imagine having your work truck in the shop for 2-3 months for want of a corner light fixture.

The interior of the pro model is identical to an ICE F150. The only part which breaks with any regularity is shared with ICE F150s, in fact. The only interior difference I can think of on any trim of Lightning is the big screen on higher models. But it's the same underlying SYNC system as every other F150, no magic there. It has breakable expensive headlights and taillights, that is for sure. But so do ICE F150s...

> It has breakable expensive headlights and taillights, that is for sure. But so do ICE F150s...

The point is they're harder to get because they're rarer.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#589

Post by kakacik »

lallysingh wrote: post #335
smackeyacky wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper? Not sure how. While an ICE engine does have cooling systems and fuelling systems, water pumps and fuel pumps are relatively cheap and simple devices. An EV generally has a battery cooling system along with regenerative braking. EVs have roughly the same mechanical things as an ICE vehicle too, HVAC, suspension, brakes, in car entertainment, heated seats. Lighting. An entire 12v subsystem to power all that st…

I don't understand this comparison. An EV's battery cooling system is a cooling system. Regen braking isn't more complicated than an alternator. The rest, yeah. The chemical stacks in the batteries are expensive, and dealer markup was a problem (now they're 47-56k new). But the energy costs! $7-12 for a fill-up on home power overnight instead of $75-85 at the gas station. And maintenance. So little maintenance. For l…

Only if you have a home or some other super convenient always available spot. I don't and EVs are non-existing to me for another decade at least, simply too much hassle even if ignoring all other downsides (I don't buy new but mildly used for 25-30% of price of new which for ICE means 95% of the car, I do sometimes family 1500km drives like another one in 2 days - PITA with overcrowded electric cars, in cold which is normal here they become fraction of their capacity and drain battery continuously when parked and so on).

Its future but its coming/will come at very different time for various folks

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#590

Post by ben_w »

epolanski wrote: post #571
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars are not critical infrastructure Their production infrastructure is. > the idea that China would turn off their EVs or starting to use them as weapons from the other side of the world is borderline absurd Is it? If we got into a shooting match with Beijing, would we not try to hijack Tesla’s OTA features to disrupt their economy?

Again, as other users pointed out, Chinese manufacturing is in everything networking related from 5g antennas to switches and routers. Yet we don't ban those on security concerns. Thus, this points to the fact that it's merely being scared of competition, not security.

> Yet we don't ban those on security concerns.

Sure about that?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressional-committee-...

https://www.techtarget.com/WhatIs/feature/Chinese-companies-...

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