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Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

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Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#581

Post by jemmyw »

TheBicPen wrote: post #456
ryandrake wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demonization of "flip-flopping" is so stupid. Bro, I want my politicians to change their minds when new facts arise or when public sentiment changes. The last thing we need is more dogmatic my-way-or-the-highway politicians that refuse to change their minds about anything.

While I agree with you, I find it hard to argue against the view that politicians are elected for the views they held during their campaign. They may change their mind after being elected, but their constituents that voted for them will not all change their mind simultaneously. To the ones that don't change their mind, it does appear to be a betrayal of their principles. A rational politician would not want to gain t…

I would be much more inclined to continue voting for a politician who could explain their policy position as it changes in an open and sensible way. Politicians putting on a speech that sounds truthful and honest and like a discussion is happening between adults is so rare - it seems that very few people want that. I do though.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#582

Post by ants_everywhere »

latexr wrote: post #580
ants_everywhere wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claims of AI use were unsubstantiated and pure conjecture, which was pointed out by people who understand language, including me. Now it appears that the community has used an MIT attribution violation to make the Zigbook author a victim of DMCA abuse. That doesn't look great to me. It doesn't look like a community I would encourage others to participate in. > tried to claim a namespace on open-vsx It seems reaso…

> The claims of AI use were unsubstantiated and pure conjecture It seemed that way to me at the start too, but it quickly became apparent. Even the submitter thought so after going through the git history. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45952436 > It seems reasonable for the zigbook namespace to belong to the zigbook author. That's generally how the namespaces work right? Yes. Bad actors try to give themselves…

I think if you take a step back and try to fight against confirmation bias you'll see that the arguments you're making are very weak.

You are also moving the goal posts. You started with it was sketchy to claim a namespace now you're moving to it's sketchy to own domains. Of course people are going to buy variants on their domains.

This is easily in the top 5 most toxic moments in open source, and off the top of my head seems like #1. For all you know this is some kid in a country with a terrible job market trying to create a resource for the community and get their name out there. And the Zig community tried to ruin his life because they whipped themselves into a frenzy and convinced themselves there were secret signs that an AI might have been used at some point.

I've never seen an open source community gang up like that to bully someone based on absolutely no evidence of any wrong doing except forgetting to include an attribution for 22 lines of code. That's the sort of issue that happens all the time in open source and this is the first time I've seen it be used to try to really hurt someone and make them personally suffer. The intentional cruelty and the group of stronger people deliberately picking on a weaker person is what makes it far worse to me than the many other issues in open source of people behaving impolitely.

This is an in-group telling outsiders they're not welcome and, not only that, if we don't like you we'll hurt you.

And yes there have been repeated mentions of their interest in crypto, including in this thread.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#583

Post by latexr »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #582
latexr wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The claims of AI use were unsubstantiated and pure conjecture It seemed that way to me at the start too, but it quickly became apparent. Even the submitter thought so after going through the git history. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45952436 > It seems reasonable for the zigbook namespace to belong to the zigbook author. That's generally how the namespaces work right? Yes. Bad actors try to give themselves…

I think if you take a step back and try to fight against confirmation bias you'll see that the arguments you're making are very weak. You are also moving the goal posts. You started with it was sketchy to claim a namespace now you're moving to it's sketchy to own domains. Of course people are going to buy variants on their domains. This is easily in the top 5 most toxic moments in open source, and off the top of my h…

> You are also moving the goal posts. You started with it was sketchy to claim a namespace now you're moving to it's sketchy to own domains.

Please don’t distort my words. That is a bad faith argument. I never claimed it was “sketchy to claim a namespace”, I listed the grievances other people made. That’s what “From what I remember (…) the complaint was” means. When I mentioned the domains, that was something which looked fishy to me. There’s no incongruence or goal post moving there. Please argue in good faith.

> For all you know this is some kid in a country with a terrible job market trying to create a resource for the community and get their name out there.

And for all you know, it’s not. Heck, for all I know it could be you. Either way it doesn’t excuse the bad behaviour, which is plenty and documented. All you have in defence is speculation which even if true wouldn’t justify anything.

You may not have seen this as I added the context after posting, so I’ll repeat it here:

> Them stealing code, claiming it as their own, refusing to give attribution and editing third-party comments to make it seem the author is saying they are “autistic and sperging” is OK with you?

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46095338

> You really see nothing wrong with that and think criticising such behaviour is flimsy and absurd?

Please answer that part. Is that OK with you? Do you think that is fine and excusable? Do you think that’s a prime example of someone “trying to create a resource for the community”? Is that not toxic behaviour?

Criticise the Zig community all you want, but pay attention to the person you’re so fervently defending too.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#584

Post by bastardoperator »

pwdisswordfishs wrote: post #575
bastardoperator wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was pointing out how ironic it was for them to move from git SaaS to git SaaS while having no issues with git on the git SaaS they're moving away from. Make sense?

That's not ironic. If they had trouble with Git on GitHub, and then left GitHub for Codeberg, where they also have to use Git, then that would be very strange. Instead, they had trouble with GitHub, so they left GitHub, which makes perfect sense.

You're conflating GitHub the platform with GitHub the bundle of services. CI is optional, swappable, not unique to GitHub. Sponsorship infrastructure and discoverability are not. The complaints target the optional layer. The migration sacrifices the sticky layer. That's backwards, and ironic, with the intention of being performative. It's almost like selling your car because a tire lost some air, lol.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#585

Post by _zagj »

brushfoot wrote: post #139

The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the…

Nice that they cleaned it up, but Andrew has a pattern of coming across across as even less mentally stable than the Notepad++ dev, which isn't a good look for a BDFL. For example, he randomly broke down in tears during a presentation not long ago.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#586

Post by mistercheph »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #371
styanax wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the previous HN article, I recall many a comment talking about how they should change this, leave the politics/negative juju out because it was a bad look for the Zig community. It would appear they listened to that feedback, swallowed their ego/pride and did what was best for the Zig community with these edits. I commend them for their actions in doing what's best for the community at the cost of some personal me…

Zig is the language that was intentionally made to fail and error out on windows carriage returns instead of parsing them like every language ever made. They made a version for windows and then made it not work with every windows text editor. Their answer was to 'get better text editors' or 'make a preprocessing program to strip out carriage returns' or 'don't use windows' (they had a windows executable). This is not…

Use a real operating system and problem solved?

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#587

Post by 29athrowaway »

brushfoot wrote: post #139

The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the…

The original version is fine.

GitHub is critical infrastructure for many projects and pushing AI slop is not acceptable.

They have the money to pay for quality development time.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#588

Post by philwelch »

yupyupyups wrote: post #334
philwelch wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that didn’t last. https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=wjLCqUUWd8DzG+xsOn-yVL0Q=...

But you got to give it to him, he does seem to be really good at catching deficiensies early that may accumulate to become serious bugs or security vulnerabilities in the future. Sure, being an asshole is not ok, but being assertive is a must for a person in his position.

I’m very much a Linus defender; the kernel is more important than people’s feelings and his approach has maintained a high level of quality.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#589

Post by jama211 »

bit1993 wrote: post #119
mkornaukhov wrote: post #39

IMHO, the main advantage of github is that it is an ecosystem. This is a well-thought-out Swiss knife: a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system, convenient issues, as well as a well-formed CI system with many developed actions and free runners. In addition, it is best to use code navigation simply in a web browser. You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. Having a sponsorship system is also great,…

I don't agree with this at all. I think the reason Github is so prominent is the social network aspects it has built around Git, which created strong network effects that most developers are unwilling to part with. Maintainers don't want to loose their stars and the users don't want to loose the collective "audit" by the github users. Things like number of stars on a repository, number of forks, number of issues answ…

Unfortunately the social network aspect is still hugely valuable though. It will take a big change for anything to happen on that front.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#590

Post by 0xedd »

mkornaukhov wrote: post #39

IMHO, the main advantage of github is that it is an ecosystem. This is a well-thought-out Swiss knife: a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system, convenient issues, as well as a well-formed CI system with many developed actions and free runners. In addition, it is best to use code navigation simply in a web browser. You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. Having a sponsorship system is also great,…

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