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Why aren't smart people happier?

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#581

Post by GoblinSlayer »

jebarker wrote: post #212
chermi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think smart people are told much more often as kids how bright of a future they have. So they build up expectations of "succeeding" in some sense (becoming a doctor, getting rich, etc.). These are the sort of expectations you mention in your quote. Not only is there often pressure put on you if you're smart, you adopt those expectations yourself. Or at least hold yourself to that standard. Of course, being smart do…

For me this has 100% been the main source of unhappiness in my life. I wish nobody had ever told me how smart I was as a child. The reality was that I was above average but in an unremarkable collection of kids mostly. I’ve done fine in life academically and career wise but I’ll never live up to the expectations that were planted in my head. Thankfully you can get over this/yourself and let go of ego, ambition, achie…

Expectations are planted in you in school and linger for entire life? I don't remember anything like that. I was told how smart I am, but the exact citation is "don't solve all problems, let other kids solve some too". Maybe I was obedient and did what I'm told without asking for more pressure.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#582

Post by zh3 »

dcchuck wrote: post #550

There's a Bertrand Russell book on this very topic, The Conquest of Happiness - https://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Happiness-Bertrand-Russell/d... (not an affiliate link) I enjoyed the read. Felt like Russell just thought about this question for a while, and shared his thoughts. It was very practical and enjoyable. Disclaimer: I recall some "wow, we don't talk like that anymore" moments. And I didn't enjoy the hyperbole…

Bertrand Russell: "The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

That's actually from "The triumph of stupdity" [0] rather than Conquest of Happiness but perhaps more appropriate to this particular discussion.

* [0] https://russell-j.com/0583TS.HTM

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#583

Post by jebarker »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #581
jebarker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me this has 100% been the main source of unhappiness in my life. I wish nobody had ever told me how smart I was as a child. The reality was that I was above average but in an unremarkable collection of kids mostly. I’ve done fine in life academically and career wise but I’ll never live up to the expectations that were planted in my head. Thankfully you can get over this/yourself and let go of ego, ambition, achie…

Expectations are planted in you in school and linger for entire life? I don't remember anything like that. I was told how smart I am, but the exact citation is "don't solve all problems, let other kids solve some too". Maybe I was obedient and did what I'm told without asking for more pressure.

Well, we most likely went to different schools and had different parents.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#584

Post by borroka »

dlivingston wrote: post #580
uberduper wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm smart, I certainly don't feel like it. I can tell you I do not enjoy thinking. I hate it. It is a compulsion that I cannot avoid. I know that it makes most interactions in my life more difficult. I know it's a source of unhappiness. I cannot stop thinking. I want to do. Not think. I fail to do. I think about failure.

You should look into meditation. Let me explain. Meditation teaches that your thoughts are uncontrolled expressions of your subconcious; as are your worries, your fears, your anxieties. To meditate is not to stop thinking thoughts, but to observe them as they spontaneously appear, and - just as quickly - disappear. To recognize that you are not the thinker of your thoughts. To view them from a place of detachment and…

May I recommend an alternative to Eastern Meditation practices?

The alternative is Autogenic Training (AT), a method invented by Dr. Schultz a century ago. It is a well-tested scientific approach, and the outcomes are generally very positive, if not life-changing.

AT does not involve interpreting obscure texts written thousands of years ago in other languages and referring to ways of life that have long been forgotten.

AT does not require silent retreats or attending workshops and seminars at the end of which you are more confused than before. It is simple and just requires following the steps outlined by Schultz and his students.

I am surprised that it is not popular at all, but its strengths are also its weaknesses. Most people long for the esoteric and unexplained, while AT is clear, easy to understand and practice.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#585

Post by GoblinSlayer »

Yoric wrote: post #556
chermi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think smart people are told much more often as kids how bright of a future they have. So they build up expectations of "succeeding" in some sense (becoming a doctor, getting rich, etc.). These are the sort of expectations you mention in your quote. Not only is there often pressure put on you if you're smart, you adopt those expectations yourself. Or at least hold yourself to that standard. Of course, being smart do…

> Then there's also the fact that high achievers often hold themselves to unrealistic standards even if they "succeed", so they also struggle to be happy. Can attest to this. By most accounts, I've "succeeded" much better than I expected, even as a former "gifted" kid. But I'm far from happy, either with myself, with my jobs, or with the fact that I'm not doing more for the world. I've left jobs that looked great on…

My hobby is my job, that's how you do it. Maybe because it's my hobby, I don't believe there are boring things in my field (programming).

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#587

Post by dyauspitr »

HKH2 wrote: post #501
dyauspitr wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleasure is happiness. If you could afford it you can have great food, unlimited sex, free time to pursue passions and interests and most importantly endless, unrestricted power over people all the time. The above, combined with no stressors will pretty much guarantee life long happiness. The only caveats are drugs (generally destructive) and clinical depression caused by hormonal imbalances.

Pleasure is immediate, whereas happiness (or joy) reflects something more long-lasting and is often ineffable. You can get used to pleasure because you can predict it and control it. Joy and wisdom are not gained so easily, and it's that challenge that creates meaning.

I’m positing that a lifetime of non destructive pleasure is indistinguishable from happiness.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#588

Post by ranger_danger »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #226
jebarker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me this has 100% been the main source of unhappiness in my life. I wish nobody had ever told me how smart I was as a child. The reality was that I was above average but in an unremarkable collection of kids mostly. I’ve done fine in life academically and career wise but I’ll never live up to the expectations that were planted in my head. Thankfully you can get over this/yourself and let go of ego, ambition, achie…

There is a HealthygamerGG video where he talks about gifted kids as special needs kids bc of this factor. I found it really enlightening. I definitely had to confront it in my own life. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QUjYy4Ksy1E

Same thing happened with me. By the time I was halfway through high school, everything was so boring I couldn't focus enough to actually do any work. Most days I would just skip class and I rarely did any homework at all.

The principal told by parents "we have nothing else to offer your child", so I dropped out and started working fulltime. As much as I know I should be advocating to stay in school, I don't regret it for one second. As soon as I turned 18 I already had enough money to move out on my own and never looked back. Never went back to school.

As far as work qualifications goes... writing software, I have always gotten work based on my experience alone, nobody that I actually wanted to work for ever cared about some piece of paper, only what I could do.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#589

Post by estimator7292 »

Loneliness. If you're smarter than the average person, your cohort of intellectual peers becomes vanishingly small. Without the support and community of people like you, or who can understand you, most humans get pretty depressed.

When you're a smart person, you see the world in a fundamentally different way. You can see both the grand beauty in the universe and our place within it, but at the same time it's impossible to escape seeing the whole world for the cruel and unjust place we've made it. It's profoundly sad to think about the richness with which you experience the world and knowing that most people don't get to see the universe this way.

When you're smart, you're capital-D Different. Fewer people relate to you. There are endless expectations placed on you. You're Other from most social groups.

There's also the deep dissatisfaction and despair of seeing with perfect clarity what the world could be if everyone would just get along.

It's all about being different and the loneliness it brings. It's about knowing that humanity can be so much more than what we are. The world is bad and small and lonely. There's only so much you can do despite having perfect clarity on how we can get to where we should be.

Something most everyone here can relate to is being a programmer or engineer in a room full of laypeople. You can try to explain what you're working on, but no matter how simply you put it, they won't ever "get" why you're excited or mad about some problem. It's hard to communicate our highly technical experiences to someone who just doesn't understand.

Think of how frustrating that is. Now imagine that every conversation is like this from the time you're ten years old to the day you die. Here and there you'll run into a group of peers and have a real conversation at your own intellectual level. But it's still an isolated group, the rest of your life is still explaining compiler optimizations or finite element analysis to your great aunt. It sucks.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#590

Post by bitexploder »

taneq wrote: post #485
ryandv wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more or less the basis of a lot of western esotericism and ceremonial magick. Consider it a weaponization of the placebo effect, or the closest thing to creatio ex nihilo one can personally experience. Dialogue with the purveyor of negative self-talk is another modality in this space.

The coolest thing about the placebo effect is that it works even if you know it’s a placebo so the more you believe in science the more you can pick some random bs and be like “This will help me because I think it will, and the placebo effect is real” And it will actually. fkn. work.

Your brain is just like: okay, it works, the conscious mind knows what it is talking about. lol
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