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Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

express.co.uk

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Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#581

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

gethly wrote: post #548
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I would argue that you are completely wrong. You could argue that, but it would be idiotic. It would be deeply and deliberately ignorant of e.g. Facebook complicity in ethnic massacres in Myanmar. Cambridge Analytica. Youtube as an engine of algorithmic radicalisation. The continued extremism on what was once Twitter. Online anti-vax disinformation. QAnon. All of Truth Social. You posit it as "people vs governme…

By the way, "back then", when there was no or little regulation, online businesses had to build trust by being reliable and deliver on their promises. That is why paypal could have even taken off as a business. Nowadays, with regulations, we are supposed to trust every company because it is regulated or might have some kind of legal danger for not providing services and whatnot, yet that is not the case in reality. S…

IDK, this makes very little sense to me. You used to rely on but trust, and now you can't ... because government? You have to trust and it doesn't work? So maybe don't do that and you'd be back where you were?

The "mostly due to lack of government involvement" part that you abruptly pivot to in the second para is completely unsupported and does not tell a compelling story about how we got here. Try Cory Doctorow on "Enshitification" which does, and it's all about consolidation and large company leverage. The only way that government is involved is as a bystander who could have done something but did not.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#582

Post by sabellito »

basisword wrote: post #550
darkamaul wrote: post #452

Serious question: why are people siding with Imgur here, instead of blaming the company that chose to ignore the laws of the country it operates in? Imgur's business model is ad sales and tracking users - that inherently requires collecting and protecting data, including vulnerable groups like children. Even if the UK rules are imperfect or possibly overbroad (I haven't read them), if a company choose to operate wher…

>> Serious question: why are people siding with Imgur here, instead of blaming the company that chose to ignore the laws of the country it operates in? Because if we've learnt anything from the debate around the Online Safety Act, it's that the majority of people are so unbelievably addicted to porn they feel like it's a human rights violation to put up barriers to their access to it. While there are obvious privacy…

Are you arguing that people who are against this law and its implementation in the UK are against it because they're addicted to porn?

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#583

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

sjw987 wrote: post #570
gethly wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Back in late 90s, 2000s, even 2010s, the internet was truly awesome. Only once governments started to get involved, by increasing the red tape and adding restrictions and whatnot, it became shit. So I would argue that you are completely wrong. Yes, it might have been a bit of a wild west, but that is a good thing because you needed to have some smarts to navigate it and that filtered out the dumb masses…

The internet became shit not when governments got involved, but when millions of people came online and pushed early enthusiasts into a minority. The invasion of normal people onto the internet was the seed for handing the web to a small selection of companies, and a decline in etiquette which is now reflected in the real world (misinformation, political polarisation, bullying and group radicalism). It was inevitable…

> The invasion of normal people onto the internet was the seed for handing the web to a small selection of companies,

I would argue that consolidation is the natural outcome of capitalism and growth, it will happen if there is no intervention. The fact that the growth came from "normal people" is not the most relevant thing. It merely reflects the thing going mainstream, no longer only used by nerdy early adopters. It's in inevitable consequence of growth past a certain point. Consolidation requires only that government is hands-off on a lucrative market, e.g. allowing mergers and acquisitions.

Further, I would say that these large companies use their power and influence to avoid meaningful regulation. And that they are largely unregulated now.

It is absurd to blame this current state of affairs on "government red tape".

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#584

Post by graemep »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #469
zmmmmm wrote: post #267

There's an opportunity for a service like CloudFlare here give people a simple toggle that manages geoblocks on legal liability factors. It's way too much for every organisation to individually track every country's laws day by day in case just by being accessible there you incur a liability. And it sounds like the UK would have just self-selected out of the list of "safe" countries. If something like this was in wid…

Or, just ban children from the internet, same as gun ownership for 12yo's. Fine/imprison parents. This is a parenting problem, not a technical/business problem. Remove the supply of children and things will get better. A business cannot make laws or override laws with ToS and invent their own moral compasses - rather it is the sole responsibility of the parent on what their child gets exposed to (whether politics, po…

The internet is an extremely useful educational resource. It provides ways of communicating with people you want your kids to communicate with. it needs management by parents.

My kids have learned a huge amount from the internet. I have guided them, discussed what are credible resources, the harms possible etc, who they talk to and what they tell them....

There are solutions that would make it easier for parents - people need tools to manage this. Require that children use child safe SIM cards in their phones (they are available already - EE advertisers them). Home internet connections should be by filtered by default that can then be turned off (or off for particular devices in the ISP supplied router that most people have).

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#585

Post by bmon »

SunlitCat wrote: post #416
zmmmmm wrote: post #267

There's an opportunity for a service like CloudFlare here give people a simple toggle that manages geoblocks on legal liability factors. It's way too much for every organisation to individually track every country's laws day by day in case just by being accessible there you incur a liability. And it sounds like the UK would have just self-selected out of the list of "safe" countries. If something like this was in wid…

Quite the opposite! There's an opportunity for a service like CloudFlare here to give people a simple toggle that manages to circumvent such geoblocks. ;)

They call it warp

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#586

Post by graemep »

jeroenhd wrote: post #515
jpfromlondon wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the UK, Labour.

The Tories wrote the law for the recent changes to internet freedom in the UK. Labour supports it. Support seems to come from all sides across the political spectrum. I think the Greens are opposed to it, and maybe Reform in one of their populist speeches, but the majority of UK representatives seem to support this law. Based on this poll, most Britons also support the OSA: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-back-on…

They support the OSA because they think its only about stopping kids accessing online porn. They do not know it is much wider, enables tracking, and also stops adults access somethings.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#587

Post by cindyllm »

gethly wrote: post #484
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also, Internet with zero governance isn't any better for the people. So what's left?

Are you sure? Back in late 90s, 2000s, even 2010s, the internet was truly awesome. Only once governments started to get involved, by increasing the red tape and adding restrictions and whatnot, it became shit. So I would argue that you are completely wrong. Yes, it might have been a bit of a wild west, but that is a good thing because you needed to have some smarts to navigate it and that filtered out the dumb masses…

[dead]

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#588

Post by gethly »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #573
gethly wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then facebook did not exist. Hence, good times. Also, government regulations always come because people start complaining they got scammed or damaged in some way(usually due to their own ignorance), so government comes in and makes things worse for everyone. I am not saying there should be no legal framework for internet, but today it is just way too much and it stagnates progress, freedom of speech and overall…

> Back then facebook did not exist. ... so government comes in and makes things worse for everyone. I really do not agree at all. The power consolidation that Facebook is a good example of is just not a government regulation thing at all. The opposite in fact. Government regulation being hands-off allowed the internet to become "5 giant websites that share screenshots from the other 4". And that they're largely uncou…

We do not have to agree. My point was that internet should be as little regulated as possible, as it transcends borders and governments. You see it in another way, and that is fine. I have no issue with that. Merely difference of opinion.

Cheers.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#589

Post by munchlax »

DecoySalamander wrote: post #543
bapak wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GDPR absolutely makes sense. It's my data and you must delete it if I ask.

In most cases it's not your data, really, you didn't produce any of it. But it's data about you.

The only real information about me is data I produced myself.

Anything else is just an observation and isn't neccesarily true at all.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#590

Post by tim333 »

Koffiepoeder wrote: post #480
BatteryMountain wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are children on the internet? Why are the parents not being fined for being irresponsible? Give the kids a loaded gun, its the same as giving them access to the internet. The internet is not a place for children to begin with. Why try to bend the internet to conform? It will destroy the internet as it is as well as all it's freedoms. Oh and it probably won't stop/protect them, as thousands of new sites come & go…

Saying the internet is not a place for children is like saying the street is not for children. Full of drug dealers, cars and danger! Yet learning how to cross the street is an essential skill in life. They are also filled with flowers, pathways to playgrounds and much more. And that's why children are not forbidden on the streets. My point being: let's educate instead of regulate. "Regulating the children" is silly…

We do have laws to restrict the cars (speed limits) and drug dealers.
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