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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

581–590 of 727 posts

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your credit score in America will never be used to deny your freedom of movement within America or go against you or any of your family members when applying for higher education. It is a fundamentally flawed comparison.

It might be used to deny your kid a college loan, though - which might work out the same as denying them higher education.

I don't believe that simply because of the predatory nature of student loans. They'll give them to literally anyone.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not perfect be the enemy of good. OP is making a relative judgement, not an absolute one. And in authoritarian countries, figures like Jack Ma are dissappeared for far less, while radicals like you mention are just shot and silenced. You are not going to be allowed to build a alternative power structure that can challenge authority regardless if your views are valid or not. Might be a hard metric for some peopl…

Jack Ma was not, in fact, disappeared, though? He lay low for several months while being investigated for financial crimes. He is still the largest stakeholder in Alibaba, and still has a net worth around $27B. It's not even like his assets were frozen.

Disappearing for 6 months immediately after making a controversial speech about the financial system dosen't look good to investors. And we all know it's because of his speech, not because of "financial" crimes when the Ant Group is heavily works with the CCP given the scale of its activities.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#583
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Gee. Duly noted. I might be in your position one day in the far future. Will prep for it. Thanks :)

> Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Not really. Try to rent an apartment in Germany (any EU country really). Canada / USA is a breeze in comparison.

Not sure in Germany, but my country borders it and I rented an apartment several times with no credit history. It also never took more than a few hours to sort everything out (make an appointment, decide if I like the place, exchange my personal info, make a second apointment to sign a contract). No credit score in sight.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#584
post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> I'm not saying everywhere is identical, there's a spectrum Why such drama with many words, when all can be summed up with that. Yet somehow, people consider life much better on one side of the spectrum, while other side is considered utter shit. So much that many people are risking their lives, and some are dying just to 'move across spectrum'. It may be a hard concept to grok for typical western kids who often str…

Heh, what country are you from? What time period are you talking about? Is it your lived experience or the second-hand memory?

I lived in Bulgaria & Czechoslovakia in 70's and 80's, and my memories are quite different than yours.

You can buy fresh vegetables and fruits (in-season, local, not shipped from Peru) & dairy products & bread & eggs as much as you can afford (and the prices were affordable, stable for a dozen years). Bananas, oranges & other exotic stuff was not available, maybe around Christmas if you had the right information and waited in a long queue. Slightly better but nor really good with better cuts of meat.

I never ever saw empty shelves in shops, not in Bulgaria, not in Czechoslovakia. I am pretty sure of that, because in 1982+- we were on a 'friendly exchange trip' to Kiev (elementary school organized, with a school in Kiev reciprocally coming to us a couple months later) and saw those there, and still remember the shock.

Jeans and such stuff was for kids with connections or family in the west. Few people had cars, mostly skoda/lada/moskvich/wartburg/trabant/polski fiat. Small, very basic shit. Public transport worked, to every little village. Nothing fancy, but functional. You could live without car, not like in USA.

I have never met a soviet soldier in my life at that time, those poor souls were closed-off at military bases and were forbidden getting out (maybe to prevent them seeing than life in Czechoslovakia was so much better than in CCCP).

The education in schools was focused more on math/engineering/hard sciences, and kids of those times had better background in those than the kids growing today, although humanities are another thing. We did not sing the hymn, like they do in USA. Everyone knew those are lies. But a photo of the current leader of the communist party was hanging there. Communist indoctrination was everywhere, you learnt to live with it and filter it out. Unlike the west, where most people still believe the official narratives.

I could see Austria behind the iron fence from the window of my bedroom, seeing the lights of the cars driving there, but thinking I will never see those places in my life.

One afternoon, I saw my younger brother (late elementary school at that time) walking across the field towards the fence, too curious and stupid. Suddenly, from a well-hidden bunker, a couple of guys with rifles and a german shepherd appeared, and escorted him out. No shooting at sigh, no beating, no record of 'dangerous anti-communistic element'.

My uncle, serving as a young conscript at Shumava forest, late 50's (he had no choice about that), on the border between Czechia and Western Germany, got knifed in back by somebody trying to flee to the West. Survived, 2cm from kidneys. Ended up living most of his life (since 1969) in USA.

My mother threw away her communist card, shouting, at the face of the local party committee, with the words 'to hell with such party, when I, a widow with two small kids, have to live in such apartment (small room + small kitchen, dark, a toilet and a kitchen sink with only cold water (no bathroom), small coal stove the only heating). She did not go to jail, eventually we got better apartment (central heating, real bathroom and toiled, hot water).

You know, those are real life anecdotes. Not the propaganda tropes endlessly replicated.

If you were politically active, anti-communist, you lost your engineering/science/arts/whatever fancy job and ended up e.g. as boiler operator of the local heating plant for municipal heating. 50's were wild with several highly-politicized processes ending up in capital punishment (so was McCarthyism in the USA at that time), but 70's and 80's were relatively tame.

In the next class, there was a son of a well-known dissident. Had no problems getting into high-quality high school (merit-based entry exams, mostly math), not sure how would the thing went with the university studies (math/engineering probably OK, law/philosophy probably not), but the fall of communism came.

There was widespread small-scale stealing from the state ('if you are not stealing from the state, you are stealing from the family'), although the real large-scale looting came after the fall of the communism.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#585
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile the actual corporations don't even have proper police forces and would struggle to get you put in actual prison for violating their rules. You should visit some megacorp campuses and then rethink this view. If you actually believe it then I dare you to do something against their rules while in one of their offices and be marveled at how many people pour out of the literal walls dressed in clothing colored…

They have to do it by proxy, though, ultimately. You can run away from their territory and be safe, until they think of an actual crime to accuse you of. In my naivety I don't believe megacorps carry out extrajudicial punishments, apart from banning people. They have to go through the law, and try to get people punished, not carry it out themselves.

Im not sure I was clear

>They have to do it by proxy, though, ultimately. You can run away from their territory and be safe, until they think of an actual crime to accuse you of.

This is not true, they have their own private security forces, with guns, who will seize you on their property. Managing to run away from an organization's controlled territory to be safe from them, applies to public 0governments too

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#586

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

The main problem with living under authoritarian rule is 1. the absenсe of control for the way where the country is going. 2. the value of human life is approaching zero. Today your life is pretty decent (unless you're some kind of minority (c)), but tomorrow you find yourself with a mobilization order because your country decides to start a war. And nobody cares about your surviving.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

The superiority of democracy is not that it will produce the best leadership. It's that bad leaders can be removed by the governed.

In theory the last 10-15 years show that it might be easier to overthrow a radical regime...

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#588
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can easily see it by immigration application numbers by country. Where are you getting this information? Visa issuance more than doubled between 2020 and 2024. https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual...

Visa issuance doubling and having less applications from improving countries can both be true. I think you want issuance by place of birth to make the comparison OP is pointing out. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

> I think you want issuance by place of birth to make the comparison OP is pointing out.

I’m not seeing a year to year comparison on the page you linked. It’s calculable from the monthly figures, but I’ll wait and see if the GP responds with his own source.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#589
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Now” implies that this wasn’t being done before. It has always been legal to deport a green card holder over criminal convictions. Are you suggesting that ICE is rounding up these green card holders for the crime of being Mexican and throwing them back over the wall? This seems to be what you want people to believe. I’m aware of at least two cases where naturalized citizens were deported without having their status…

It's almost like increasing the speed and discarding process safeguards increases the rate of error! Imagine that! Who could have predicted?

[deleted]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#590
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Now” implies that this wasn’t being done before. It has always been legal to deport a green card holder over criminal convictions. Are you suggesting that ICE is rounding up these green card holders for the crime of being Mexican and throwing them back over the wall? This seems to be what you want people to believe. I’m aware of at least two cases where naturalized citizens were deported without having their status…

It's almost like increasing the speed and discarding process safeguards increases the rate of error! Imagine that! Who could have predicted?

This style of commentary is incredibly obnoxious and doesn’t belong here.
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