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Study mode

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Re: Study mode

#581

Post by teiferer »

jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions.

That trained and sharpened invaluable skills involving critical thinking and grit.

Re: Study mode

#582

Post by nathias »

romaniitedomum wrote: post #412
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. This is leaps and bounds ahead of that experience. But now, you're wondering if the answer the AI gave you is correct or something it hallucinated. Every time I find myself putting…

did you trust everything you read online before?

Re: Study mode

#583

Post by johnnyanmac »

jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

>Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. This is leaps and bounds ahead of that experience.

Researching online properly requires cross referencing, seeing different approaches, and understanding various strenghts, weaknesses, and biases among such sources.

And that's for objective information, like math and science. I thought Grok's uhh... "update" shows enough of the dangers when we resort to a billionaire controlled oracle as a authoritative resource.

>Will some (most?) people rely on it lazily without using it effectively? Certainly, and this technology won't help or hinder them any more than a good old fashioned textbook.

I don't think facilitating bad habits like lazy study is an effective argument.And I don't really subscribe to this ineviability angle either: https://tomrenner.com/posts/llm-inevitabilism/

Re: Study mode

#584

Post by schmorptron »

Oh, that's pretty good! I've been doing this with various LLMs already, making elaborate system prompts to turn them into socratic style teachers or in general tutors that don't just straight up give the answer, and have generally been impressed with how well it works and how much I enjoy it. The only thing to watch out for is when you're talking about something you don't already know well it becomes harder to spot hallucinations, so it's a good idea to always verify with external resources as well.

What these really need IMO is an integration where they generate just a few anki flashcards per session, or even multiple choice quizzes that you can then review with spaced repetition. I've been doing this manually, but having it integrated would remove another hurdle.

On the other hand, I'm unsure whether we're training ourselves to be lazy with even this, in the sense of "brain atrophy" that's been talked about regarding LLMs. Where I used to need to pull information from several sources and synthesize my own answer by transferring several related topics onto mine, now I get everything pre-chewed, even if in the form of a tutor.

Does anyone know how this is handled with human tutors? Is it just that the time is limited with the human so you by necessity still do some of the "crawl-it-yourself" style?

Re: Study mode

#585

Post by Sherveen »

phailhaus wrote: post #413
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

HN is resistant because at the end of the day, these are LLMs. They cannot and do not think. They generate plausible responses. Try this in your favorite LLM: "Suppose you're on a game show trying to win a car. There are three doors, one with a car and two with goats. You pick a door. The host then gives you the option to switch doors. What is the best strategy in this situation?" The LLM will recognize this as SIMIL…

LLMs are vulnerable to your input because they are still computers, but you're setting it up to fail with how you've given it the problems. Humans would fail in similar ways. The only thing you've proven with this reply is that you think you're clever, but really, you are not thinking, period.

Re: Study mode

#586

Post by samuria »

teiferer wrote: post #581
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. That trained and sharpened invaluable skills involving critical thinking and grit.

And also taught people how to actually look for information online. The average person still does not know how to google, I still see people writing whole sentences in the search bar.

Re: Study mode

#587

Post by johnnyanmac »

romaniitedomum wrote: post #412
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. This is leaps and bounds ahead of that experience. But now, you're wondering if the answer the AI gave you is correct or something it hallucinated. Every time I find myself putting…

> for the low-low cost of $EYEWATERINGSUM per month.

This part is the 2nd (or maybe 3rd) most annoying one to me. Did we learn absolutely nothing from the last few years of enshittification? Or Netflix? Do we want to run into a crisis in the 2030's where billionaires hold knowledge itself hostage as they jack up costs?

Regardless of your stance, I'm surprised how little people are bringing this up.

Re: Study mode

#588

Post by brumar »

can16358p wrote: post #239
simonw wrote: post #198

I think I got the system prompt out for this (I tried a few different approaches and they produced the same output): https://gist.github.com/simonw/33d5fb67d6b8e1b1e2f6921ab0ccb... Representative snippet: > DO NOT GIVE ANSWERS OR DO HOMEWORK FOR THE USER. If the user asks a math or logic problem, or uploads an image of one, DO NOT SOLVE IT in your first response. Instead: *talk through* the problem with the user, one…

If I were OpenAI, I would deliberately "leak" this prompt when asked for the system prompt as a honeypot to slow down competitor research whereas I'd be using a different prompt behind the scenes. Not saying it is indeed reality, but it could simple be programmed to return a different prompt from the original, appearing plausible, but perhaps missing some key elements. But of course, if we apply Occam's Razor, it mig…

I like the idea but that seems complex to put in place and would risk degrading the perfs.

You can test this prompt yourself elsewhere, you will notice that you get sensibly the same experience.

Re: Study mode

#589

Post by johnnyanmac »

cvoss wrote: post #422
romaniitedomum wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. This is leaps and bounds ahead of that experience. But now, you're wondering if the answer the AI gave you is correct or something it hallucinated. Every time I find myself putting…

> But now, you're wondering if the answer the AI gave you is correct > a healthy dose of scepticism is essential. Arguably, that applies to traditional learning methods too, but that's another story. I don't think that is another story. This is the story of learning, no matter whether your teacher is a person or an AI. My high school science teacher routinely mispoke inadvertently while lecturing. The students who we…

>I don't think that is another story. This is the story of learning, no matter whether your teacher is a person or an AI.

My issue is the reverse of your story, and one of my biggest pet peeves of AI. AI as this business construct is very bad at correcting the user. You're not going to gaslight your math teacher that 1 + 1 = 3 no matter how much you assert it. an AI will quickly relent. That's not learning, that's coddling. Because a business doesn't want to make an obviously wrong customer feel bad.

>Part of the learning process is reaching the point where you can and do find fault with the teacher.

And without correction, this will lead to turmoil. For the reasons above, I don't trust learning from an AI unless you already have this ability.

Re: Study mode

#590

Post by ricardobeat »

ay wrote: post #488
romaniitedomum wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. This is leaps and bounds ahead of that experience. But now, you're wondering if the answer the AI gave you is correct or something it hallucinated. Every time I find myself putting…

My favourite story of that involved attempting to use LLM to figure out whether it was true or my hallucination that the tidal waves were higher in Canary Islands than in Caribbean, and why; it spewed several paragraphs of plausibly sounding prose, and finished with “because Canary Islands are to the west of the equator”. This phrase is now an inner joke used as a reply to someone quoting LLMs info as “facts”.

This is meaningless without knowing which model, size, version and if they had access to search tools. Results and reliability vary wildly.

In my case I can’t even remember last time Claude 3.7/4 has given me wrong info as it seems very intent on always doing a web search to verify.

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