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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

581–590 of 875 posts

Re: Pope Francis has died

#581

I'm curious how devout Catholics will perceive it when the leader of their Church dies on their holiest day, which commemorates the resurrection of Christ. Will they going to see it as a symbol, a sign, or perhaps some kind of deeper message?

I view it the same way I view three American founders dying on July 4th, two of them on the 50th anniversary of the signing. His force of will could take him a ways beyond when his body might reasonably have been expected to fail; having reached that point, he was not prepared to take the effort any further.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#582
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who should surrender, though? At this point in time, if Hamas were to surrender, the Israeli occupation of Gaza would just get worse. That wouldn't be peace, or justice, for people of Gaza. I certainly don't support what Hamas has done, but Israeli rule will probably be pretty brutal for Palestinians.

Israel hasn't occupied Gaza for 20 years.

Well yes, but that's because once Israel occupies it, it isn't Gaza anymore. Now it's a "Security Zone." Something like half of Gaza is "Security Zone" now: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/14/g-s1-59633/gaza-buffer-zone-i...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re under the impression that’s relevant? How so? Asking out of genuine curiosity.

My understanding is that the mass is intended to be a recreation or commemoration of that event. So why is speaking it in Latin important?

In the early centuries of Christianity, as it spread geographically, there developed distinct rites of worship that solidified and then were handed down to the present, retaining strong links to the spoken-written languages used to express them originally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_a...

Oversimplifying greatly, but in and from Western Europe we have the Latin Rite, and in/from the East we have the Byzantine (Greek) Rite. There are others, not of less importance, see the link above.

There’s quite a lot of history involved in all this. But in Western Christianity it was Latin that became predominant for public worship and knowledge transmission.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t turn your other cheek when you’re dead, so I am pretty sure he didn’t mean it as allow yourself to get killed. Besides, Ukraine did turn other cheek after 2014 war, they just run out of cheeks to turn. Back to main subject, I believe nothing weakened Pope Francis’s policies as much as his widely misunderstood position on this subject.

> he didn’t mean it as allow yourself to get killed. You know, what happened on Easter right?

I do, according to christian doctrine Jesus sacrificed himself for humanity’s sins. That sacrifice wouldn’t be particularly meaningful if it came with expectation for everybody to follow through. As much as I am not a fan of this (or any other) religion, I’m pretty sure it’s not a suicide pact.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t turn your other cheek when you’re dead, so I am pretty sure he didn’t mean it as allow yourself to get killed. Besides, Ukraine did turn other cheek after 2014 war, they just run out of cheeks to turn. Back to main subject, I believe nothing weakened Pope Francis’s policies as much as his widely misunderstood position on this subject.

Jesus pretty famously did allow himself to be killed

Yep, as a sacrifice. Using this as a justification for aggressive war against a christian nation is not only extremely intellectually dishonest, but against the doctrine as well.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus famously said turn the other cheek

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Thanks for that comment, as it encouraged me to read a wikipedia article on the subject, which was very interesting.

Link for others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek

Re: Pope Francis has died

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty disappointing from someone who spent his career modelling language and the cognition behind it.

It is probably exactly because he spent a career considering the cognition behind language that he is not as impressed by LLMs as many others are. I'll readily admit to being expert in neither language and linguistics nor AI, but I am skeptical that anything going on inside an LLM is properly described as "cognition."

does it really matter if it can be described as cognition or not? to me these models are useful for how effective they are, and that's literally it. the processes going on within them are extremely complex and at times very impressive, and whether some arbitrarily undefined word applies or not does not really matter. I think sometimes people forget that words are not maths or logic. when words come into language, no one sits down and makes sure that they're 100% logically and philosophically sound, they just start to be used, usually based on a feeling, and slowly gather and lose meaning over time. perhaps when dictionaries were first written there was some effort to do this, but for lots of words its probably impossible or incredibly difficult even now, never mind 200 years ago, if they could even be bothered in the first place.

to give an example, a quite boring "philosophy question" that's bandied around, usually by children, is "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?". the answer is that "sound" is a word without a commonly-accepted, logically-derived meaning, for the reasons given above. so if to you the word sound is something human, then the answer is no, but if to you a sound is not something human, then the answer is yes. there's nothing particularly interesting or complex about the thought experiment, it's just a poorly defined word

Re: Pope Francis has died

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> If 99% of people in the street can agree on the meaning of a word without much ambiguity then that's a good starting point This turns out to never be true once you get into actual details. Try to buy blue house paint for a basic example.

I do not understand your comment as buying blue paint is an extremely trivial thing to do unless you're in the middle of the Sahara desert.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#589
post #338

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.

I think this is wrong. For nearly a hundred years, popular media has been priming the public to understand that artificial intelligence is superficially intelligent but is very prone to malfunction in inhuman ways. All that media in which AIs go haywire used to make nerds roll their eyes, but resonated with the general public then and has proved prescient now.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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I sincerely hope that at some point we can develop artificial wombs and use them to render this whole debate moot. Instead of abortion we can take the fetus out, put it into an artificial womb then let it be raised as an orphan or whatever. It should make both sides happy, IF they are both being honest about their motives.
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