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How University Students Use Claude

anthropic.com

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581–590 of 601 posts

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#581

Post by chipsrafferty »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #569
pc86 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day you can't force people to learn if they don't want to. As a society we need to be okay with failing people who deserve to fail and not drag people across the finish line at the expense of diluting the degrees of everyone else who actually put in effort.

I'm not sure why we care about the degree. Employers care about the degree, but they aren't paying for my education. The students who want to learn, will learn. For the students who just want the paper so they can apply for jobs, we ought to give them their diploma on the first day of class, so they can stop wasting everybody's time.

Then employers will stop caring about the degree...

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#582

Post by chipsrafferty »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #364
krull10 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and forget about giving skeleton code to students they should fill in; using an AI can quite frequently completely ace a typical undergraduate level assignment. I actually feel bad for people teaching programming courses, as the only real assessment one can now do is in-class testing without computers, but that is a strange way to test students’ ability to write and develop code to solve certain classes of prob…

Why do the in-class testing without computers? We use an airgapped lab (it has LAN and a local git server for submissions, no WAN) to give coding assessments. It works.

At my college, we did in-class testing with psuedocode, because we were being tested on concepts, not specific programming languages or syntax.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#583

Post by hackyhacky »

Ray20 wrote: post #576
hackyhacky wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume the everyone's needs are solved together. More likely is that the property owning class acquire AI robots to provide cheap labor; and everyone else doesn't.

>You assume the everyone's needs are solved together. No, I am not assuming that. "Together" are not required. It's just combination of needs, ability to satisfy them and ability to exchange - creates jobs. And nothing of this will be thwarted by AI. >More likely is that the property owning class acquire AI robots to provide cheap labor Doesn't matter. Your everyday person either will be able to afford this cheap AI…

Okay, so AI will be reserved for the rich, and everyone else will be left to rot in squalor. Got it.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#584

Post by andai »

andai wrote: post #437
Zanfa wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT is laughably terrible at double entry accounting. A few weeks ago I was trying to use it to figure out a reasonable way to structure accounts for a project given the different business requirements I had. It kept disappearing money when giving examples. Pointing it out didn’t help either, it just apologized and went on to make the same mistake in a different way.

Using a system based on randomness for a process that must occur deterministically is probably the wrong solution. I'm running into similar issues trying to use LLMs for logic and reasoning. They can do it (surprisingly well, once you disable the friendliness that prevents it), but you get a different random subset of correct answers every time. I don't know if setting temperature to 0 would help. You'd get the same…

Edit: It has a name! https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.11171

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#585

Post by pxc »

pxc wrote: post #286
srveale wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flipped classroom is just having the students give lectures, instead of the teacher. Not quite. Flipped classroom means more instruction outside of class time and less homework. > This is called "proctored exams" and it's been pretty common in universities for a few centuries. None of this addresses the real issue Proctored exams is part of it. In-class assignments is another. Asynchronous instruction is another. A…

Flipped classroom sounds horrible to me. I never liked being given time to work on essays or big projects in class. I prefer working at home, where the environment is much more comfortable and I can use equipment the school doesn't have, where I can wait until I'm in the right mood to focus, where nobody is pestering me about the intermediary stages of my work, etc. It also seems like a waste of having an expert arou…

I should add that upon reflection, I did have some really good "flipped classroom" experiences in college, especially in highly technical math and philosophy courses. But in those cases (a) homework was really vital, (b) significant work was never done in class, and (c) we never watched lectures at home. Instead, the activity at home (which did replace lectures) was reading textbooks (or papers) and doing homework. Then class time was like collective office hours.

Failure to do the homework made class time useless, the material was difficult, and the instructors were willing to give out failing grades. So doing the homework was vital even when it wasn't graded. Perhaps that can also work well here in the context of AI, at least for some subjects.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#586

Post by pc86 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #569
pc86 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day you can't force people to learn if they don't want to. As a society we need to be okay with failing people who deserve to fail and not drag people across the finish line at the expense of diluting the degrees of everyone else who actually put in effort.

I'm not sure why we care about the degree. Employers care about the degree, but they aren't paying for my education. The students who want to learn, will learn. For the students who just want the paper so they can apply for jobs, we ought to give them their diploma on the first day of class, so they can stop wasting everybody's time.

Employers want the degree because it's supposed to verify that you have a certain set of knowledge and/or skills, or at the very least, you're capable of thought to the extent required to get that degree. That's the only reason they want it.

Student being unable to unwilling to learn that knowledge or acquire those skills should mean they don't get that degree, they don't get those jobs, and they go work in fast food or a warehouse.

"Just give them the degree" is quite literally the worst possible solution to the problem.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#587

Post by lupusreal »

fransje26 wrote: post #548
lupusreal wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your point, but I just want to say that understanding a word and knowing how to spell it are orthogonal.

This is a good point, and part of the unwritten rationale of the argument I was trying to make. At first glance, knowing how to spell a word and understanding a word should be perfectly orthogonal. How could it not be? Saying that it is not so would imply that civilizations without writing would have no thought or could not communicate through words, which is preposterous. And yet, once we start delegating our thinki…

Well, I wouldn't say they're completely orthogonal, knowing how a word is spelled can sometimes give insight into the meaning of the word. I think they're mostly orthogonal though; it's fairly common for people to know what a word means without knowing how to spell it, and on the flip side there are people, like Scrabble players, who know how to spell a lot of words which they don't really know the meaning of. I've heard of one guy who is a champion French Scrabble player who can't actually understand French.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#588

Post by hackyhacky »

dankwizard wrote: post #561
jplusequalt wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We can replace this with an AI and free them up to do literally anything else. I would happily support automation to free myself, and others, from having to work full-time. But we live in a capitalist society, not StarTrek. Automation doesn't free up people from having to work, it only places people in financial crisis.

They'll get different jobs bud.

Good idea. I'll give up my job as a programmer/doctor/lawyer/professor to an AI, and instead I'll dig ditches, I guess. AI can't do that (yet).

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#589

Post by snegrus »

If I would start college today I would use all the models and chat assistants that are easily available. I would use Google and YouTube to learn concepts deeper. I would ask for subjects from previous years and talk with people from same and higher years.

When I was in college students were paying for homeworks solved by other students, teachers and so on.

In the article "Evaluating" is marked at 5.5% where creating is 39.8%. Students are still evaluating the answers.

My point is that just got easier to go in any direction. The distribution range is wider, is the mean changing?

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#590

Post by harvey9 »

shinycode wrote: post #406
jpc0 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should I hire you if an agent can do it ? You as the employer are liable, a human has real reasoning abilities and real fears about messing up, the likely hood of them doing something absurd like telling a customer that a product is 70% off and them not losing their job is effectively nil. What are you going to do with the LLM, fire it? Data scientist and people deeply familiar with LLMs to the point that they…

I fully agree with you about liability. I was advocating for the other point of view. Some people argue that it doesn’t matter if there is mistakes (it depends which actually) and with time it will cost nothing. I argue that if we give up learning and let LLM do the assignments then what is the extent of my knowledge and value to be hired in the first place ? We hired a developper and he did everything with chatGPT,…

Why did you hire someone who produced bad code and docs? Did he manage to pass interview without an AI?
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